Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby JONOV » Sun May 06, 2018 10:42 am

hicntry wrote:If you have any intention of using the dog for water retrieving, a really valid question is if the breeder has introduced any of the pups to water..... as in swimming rather than drinking out of a bowl. Another question I would want to know is how much time the pup has been allowed to freely roam outside as opposed to being in the house or kenneled. The answers will be directly related to what kind of pup you will have.

Or, how much duck hunting the breeder does...
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby Meridiandave » Sun May 06, 2018 4:20 pm

My advice would be to join hunting wirehaired griffon page on facebook and just listen, look and learn. Many griffon breeders are on that page. Then start linking into various breeders pages. From there you can look at their pictures and see what the are doing. Are they hunting upland? Wild birds? Ducks? With a keen eye a lot will be revealed. Next decide what is your main focus for hunting. Then formulate your questions.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby AverageGuy » Sun May 06, 2018 6:55 pm

ABurkdoll, I think attending some NAVHDA, VDD and JGHV tests and training days would give you some opportunities to get your eyes on the various breed options available. Nothing beats multiple first hand observations of your options before you land on your ultimate breed choice. Too many people do not and that has never made sense to me.

As far as Breeders, one very basic issue I pay attention to, is whether there are any decent populations of wild game to hunt where they live. It can be overcome with travel if they do not, but I would be looking to verify that if I went with a Breeder who lived where there was little game to hunt. It does not affect the dogs' genetics of course but it does affect the ability to evaluate the dogs being used to breed, while working wild game.

Best of Luck in your search, with good legwork you will easily land on a puppy which will thrill you.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby Meridiandave » Sun May 06, 2018 7:19 pm

AverageGuy wrote:ABurkdoll, I think attending some NAVHDA, VDD and JGHV tests and training days would give you some opportunities to get your eyes on the various breed options available. Nothing beats multiple first hand observations of your options before you land on your ultimate breed choice. Too many people do not and that has never made sense to me.

As far as Breeders, one very basic issue I pay attention to, is whether there are any decent populations of wild game to hunt where they live. It can be overcome with travel if they do not, but I would be looking to verify that if I went with a Breeder who lived where there was little game to hunt. It does not affect the dogs' genetics of course but it does affect the ability to evaluate the dogs being used to breed, while working wild game.

Best of Luck in your search, with good legwork you will easily land on a puppy which will thrill you.


×2. Agree with everything he said.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby hicntry » Sun May 06, 2018 9:55 pm

Because of the testing today, and, the importance people put on tests, there isn't much breeders are really responsible for other than producing pups. None of the pups are old enough for testing until after the new owners pick them up so that makes them pretty much responsible. Looking at older pups and dogs test scores doesn't say how the pups have been brought along through the first 8 to 12 weeks which are critical to their development.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby Meridiandave » Mon May 07, 2018 9:22 am

hicntry wrote:Because of the testing today, and, the importance people put on tests, there isn't much breeders are really responsible for other than producing pups. None of the pups are old enough for testing until after the new owners pick them up so that makes them pretty much responsible. Looking at older pups and dogs test scores doesn't say how the pups have been brought along through the first 8 to 12 weeks which are critical to their development.


In my experience it is just the opposite, the breeders who do the most NAHVDA testing are also the best at socialising their puppies. They want their dogs to test well, and socialising pays dividends in the test. The idea that breeders now ignore early socialsing/exploring for testing later is ludicrous.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby hicntry » Mon May 07, 2018 10:04 am

MD, the OP wanted to know what questions should be asked of breeders. I am giving my opinions on the most important things to find out. It is common knowledge that what a dog turns out to be, is only in the neighborhood of 1/3 genetics and 2/3's environment. The old phrase that "Genetics only determines what a dog CAN BE, but, the environment determines what a dog "Will BE" is true. Asking the breeders how the pups have been brought along is a more viable line of questioning than "What famous dogs are in the background" is because that question is based on a wish and a prayer. Health is a big question also. Don't want to forget that. Simply put, the environmental factors Trump genetics at this point in time. Those environmental factors can make or break any genetic factors.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby ryanr » Mon May 07, 2018 12:19 pm

ABurkdoll wrote:I was speaking to my brother about dogs this morning, I'm looking at WPGs and he's looking at a PP, and he said that he liked the PP better because he was told that the WPG has slow waterfowl development. Basically that they weren't known to retrieve waterfowl until they'd been force fetched.

I know this is an open ended question and breeding probably plays a big factor but I'm just wondering how much validity this notion has?


I think that's simply a product of dogs, no matter what breed, that simply don't come from hunting dog kennels and between WPGs and PPs there's probably more non-hunting kennels (or kennels where hunting isn't the PRIMARY breeding purpose) in the WPG world. So what's that mean? You as a potential WPG buyer should make sure you are only looking at real hunting WPG breeders. And if waterfowl hunting is a priority I'd be asking breeders how much waterfowl hunting they do with their dogs? I'd also look to attend some NAVHDA or JGHV training days, tests, etc where you know WPGs will be at.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby ABurkdoll » Tue May 08, 2018 9:48 am

Lots of good information so far, I really appreciate it.

So far I've joined Hunting Wirehaired Pointing Griffon and The Hunting Griff on Facebook and I've followed a few breeders I'm interested in.

Next steps will be attending some NAVHDA events and making some phone calls.

Saturday I'm supposed to meet up with some guys in OKC to see them do some training with PPs and a griff I believe, really looking forward to it.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby JTracyII » Tue May 08, 2018 10:31 am

ABurkdoll wrote:Lots of good information so far, I really appreciate it.

So far I've joined Hunting Wirehaired Pointing Griffon and The Hunting Griff on Facebook and I've followed a few breeders I'm interested in.

Next steps will be attending some NAVHDA events and making some phone calls.

Saturday I'm supposed to meet up with some guys in OKC to see them do some training with PPs and a griff I believe, really looking forward to it.



I am looking forward to having you and your brother over to the Ponderosa! Good luck in your search. I'll try to have Kyle (AKA KLocke) bring his female over whom he got from Mr. Posthuma in Wisconsin at Stonyridge Kennels.... She got her UT 2 title and is a great hunting dog. I hunt a lot with her every year. You can see what a good hunting griff looks like!
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby ABurkdoll » Tue May 08, 2018 10:38 am

JTracyII wrote:
ABurkdoll wrote:Lots of good information so far, I really appreciate it.

So far I've joined Hunting Wirehaired Pointing Griffon and The Hunting Griff on Facebook and I've followed a few breeders I'm interested in.

Next steps will be attending some NAVHDA events and making some phone calls.

Saturday I'm supposed to meet up with some guys in OKC to see them do some training with PPs and a griff I believe, really looking forward to it.



I am looking forward to having you and your brother over to the Ponderosa! Good luck in your search. I'll try to have Kyle (AKA KLocke) bring his female over whom he got from Mr. Posthuma in Wisconsin at Stonyridge Kennels.... She got her UT 2 title and is a great hunting dog. I hunt a lot with her every year. You can see what a good hunting griff looks like!



Sounds great, I'm looking forward to it. I can't believe I've seen your name on here as much as I have and didn't realize who you were.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby JTracyII » Tue May 08, 2018 11:35 am

ABurkdoll wrote:
JTracyII wrote:
ABurkdoll wrote:Lots of good information so far, I really appreciate it.

So far I've joined Hunting Wirehaired Pointing Griffon and The Hunting Griff on Facebook and I've followed a few breeders I'm interested in.

Next steps will be attending some NAVHDA events and making some phone calls.

Saturday I'm supposed to meet up with some guys in OKC to see them do some training with PPs and a griff I believe, really looking forward to it.



I am looking forward to having you and your brother over to the Ponderosa! Good luck in your search. I'll try to have Kyle (AKA KLocke) bring his female over whom he got from Mr. Posthuma in Wisconsin at Stonyridge Kennels.... She got her UT 2 title and is a great hunting dog. I hunt a lot with her every year. You can see what a good hunting griff looks like!



Sounds great, I'm looking forward to it. I can't believe I've seen your name on here as much as I have and didn't realize who you were.


It is hard to determine who is who sometimes. I just heard back from Kyle and he plans to come over for a bit Saturday with Pepper and Pepper's daughter from Kyle's second litter. Her name is Red. Pepper is a littermate to one of Mr. Posthuma's main stud dogs right now. She is a double bred Black River Dallas female if I'm not mistaken. Bring your appetite as my wife plans to do a late breakfast for everyone after some training! See you then.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby jfwhit » Tue May 08, 2018 12:24 pm

You’ll have a good time. Jack and the gang are very helpful. Wish I could be there.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby JTracyII » Tue May 08, 2018 3:58 pm

Thanks Jeff. By the way, My intention was not to sidetrack this thread.

I agree with what others have stated here. A good question to ask in my book is what a person hunts and try to find a good match with the most hunted prey of the breeder and your own. They will often emphasize priorities for breeding based on what they hunt. Also, how many days a season do they hunt is a good one? Some breeders may talk big, but in reality don't hunt much. Requesting pictures is sometimes helpful. Also, getting a pup from a successful repeat breeding that has shown success stacks odds in your favor. Asking for references of folks that own pups from their kennel or a specific breeding can be helpful. Call and talk to the references.
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Re: Future WPG litter inquiries, what should I be asking?

Postby mastercaster » Wed May 09, 2018 12:19 pm

JTracyII wrote:Thanks Jeff. By the way, My intention was not to sidetrack this thread.

I agree with what others have stated here. A good question to ask in my book is what a person hunts and try to find a good match with the most hunted prey of the breeder and your own. They will often emphasize priorities for breeding based on what they hunt. Also, how many days a season do they hunt is a good one? Some breeders may talk big, but in reality don't hunt much. Requesting pictures is sometimes helpful. Also, getting a pup from a successful repeat breeding that has shown success stacks odds in your favor. Asking for references of folks that own pups from their kennel or a specific breeding can be helpful. Call and talk to the references.


The breeder I got my griff from who was a late fall breeding was a bugger to get hold of because he was ALWAYS out hunting waterfowl, upland, or big game! LOL My pup was from a third repeat breeding which was one of the things that was important to me.
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