Different ranging dogs

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Different ranging dogs

Postby iapheasant » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:18 pm

I’m curious what some people’s experience has been when hunting different ranging dogs together. For example hunting a PP with a Griffon or some other combination. Was it a non issue, did they compliment each other, or did it ruin the experience. Just curious as I imagine the further ranging dog would get to the points first, assuming they did not miss any birds on the way out there.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby ForestDump » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:58 am

Just recently went out with my bigger running 2-300yard + dogs and a buddy's younger grouse/cover dogs who generally stayed in 30 yard patterns around us. It was a normal day out hunting but I was always the one calling point and we'd basically walk his dogs in to the back. I'm sure his shorter running dogs would have found the birds eventually had they been hunting alone.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:50 am

Lots of variances to your question. Assuming the bigger running dogs are hunting and not just running, my experience is they will find more birds by beating the closer ranging dogs to the birds. The degree will vary by the cover and birds being hunted. Scatter some singles (bobwhite) in the brush and the closer ranging dog will start to find its share of single birds vs coveys. I like my dog to adjust to cover and range out further in open country.

Before I moved I resorted to the game farm released birds thing more when our local populations of wild quail slowly disappeared. Several times the owners of closer ranging dogs asked me if I would hack my dog in closer so their dog could find some birds. I always declined to do that, but instead swung by my truck and kenneled my dog for awhile so their dog could hunt alone.

I will not put my dog in the truck on a wild bird hunt until he has had a good deal of bird work. There were several times my old dog Jack substantially outbirded some other guys' dogs and it can put a damper on things. But I refuse to interfere with my dogs doing their job and am not into leaving my dog in the truck on a wild bird hunt until he has had a good run and worked some birds at least.

Finding a good hunting partner is alot about the respective dogs and how compatible they are. Different training levels, ranges, styles/preferences can unfortunately result in bad fits at times. Bigger country where dogs and hunters can spread out and work towards different objectives affect that less. Tighter covers, smaller parcels to hunt make it a bigger potential issue.
Last edited by AverageGuy on Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby orhunter » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:32 am

A good Griffon and a PP should be an even match. But, I get your point. Just had to say that.

I hunted my dog with a Cesky Fousek for a couple of days and that dog never went beyond 20 yards. The only point I saw from that dog is when the owner went another direction that me and my dog were going and they stumbled into some birds. That dog also walked through an area that was infested with Chukars and never smelled them. Took my dog through the same spot a few minutes later and there must have been 70 birds in that covey. Some dogs got it, some don't.

When I hunted my dog with KJ's Wirehairs in some flat stuff and she was the dog left behind. But they did team up on lots of coveys in some rougher country where neither dogs ranged out so far. Sort of depended on the ground we hunted as to how well my dog kept up. I think my dog naturally shorted up her search when she was with the Wirehairs because she'd never hunted with other dogs very much and she didn't like it. Mostly her disposition at work. She had the physical ability but her head got in the way when she wasn't the lead dog.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:50 pm

I love hunting a 2-300 yard dog with a hundred yard dog. I think it is the deadliest combo you get. The big ranger finds distant birds but misses a ton by blowing by on the wrong side of the wind. The shorter ranging dog picks up the ones the runner missed. It is a very deadly combination.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:44 pm

I have hunted with quite a few big running dogs that did not blow by birds at all and left little to find for the dogs hunting behind them. And I have seen quite a few that did blow past birds, particularly the singles. The former are hunting, the latter are running.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:35 pm

AverageGuy wrote:
Bigger country where dogs and hunters can spread out and work towards different objectives affect that less. Tighter covers, smaller parcels to hunt make it a bigger potential issue.


I think this is key. I hunted a griff and a PP together routinely the last few years and I found the combo pretty nice. If the ground is such that you sort of know where the birds will be found then the bigger ranging dog will always find them first, but if there is plenty of ground to work then there's an opportunity for the closer, more methodical dog to shine.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby SMAbby » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:55 am

So, I have both. Not 200 yard dogs, I would never let them get that far in our cover. But I have actually 3 ranges. HA.
I never see it as a problem. Max goes further out and finds birds. Abby who is 13 putters around us. Anka is closer....which I have to say I am liking a lot.....not sure why.

Anyway, pheasants suck for pointing dogs, as we all know. But what Max might kick back behind him, Abby with her little pottering, will pick those birds up.
Anka, not that I hunt all 3 at a time, but she seems to work slower and closer at about 60 yards. I have liked this because when she hears the shot, she is on the bird.

I hate to say it, but I have lost birds because a dogs has taken to lonng to get back to pick up the track. Pheasants are fast, and when they are running for thier lives, they are even faster.

Point being. I think 2 different ranging dogs should work ok with each other. But it will always depend on the dog.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby greg jacobs » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:13 pm

GONEHUNTIN' wrote:I love hunting a 2-300 yard dog with a hundred yard dog. I think it is the deadliest combo you get. The big ranger finds distant birds but misses a ton by blowing by on the wrong side of the wind. The shorter ranging dog picks up the ones the runner missed. It is a very deadly combination.


Had a combo like that and it was great.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Meridiandave » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:06 pm

I have a griff and frequenly hunt with pudelpointers. All the dogs hunt closer when hunting pheasants. However on chukars huns and quail my griff is definately the bigger running dog. The only problem I have seen is that that the smaller ranging dog needs to back.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Highlander » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:04 pm

I have witnessed a working (on quail) of an extremely fast and long ranging ES and very short ranging and sluggish GSP. If there were a big number of bird than the GSP was quite even to the ES. This GSP had the longest and sharpest nose I had ever seen.
Also these dogs were very well trained so hunting with them was not an issue at all.

I don't like short range and sluggish dog. I don't find the same emotion and beauty of the work the long running dogs provide. However, this not to say that long running are necessary better. A great dog is the one that has enough intelligence to analyze the site and adopt the local environment as needed. There was time ones when DK's (and other German breeds as well) were known for this ability. Not sure if this is the case in modern DK stock.

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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby bhennessy » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:05 pm

Love this discussion, as the owner of two very different Griffs. My older one is close working (50 yds, maybe, and super cooperative) and my 8 month old looks to have bigger legs so far. I specifically looked for a bigger ranging griff for number two and having just seen his mom and aunt hunt the plains, he's got the genes for it! My big grff (the three year old) was my first and I very well could have made some mistakes that resulted in him having such short legs, or it could just be how he's wired.

Happily the 3 year old's range is perfect for woodcock cover here in Louisiana and I hope the little pup will continue to mature into a dog with longer legs for other birds and cover.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby JONOV » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:46 pm

Some of it depends on the cover you hunt. To take one extreme, a Dakota grassland field for sharptails or huns, vs tight Grouse covers at the other end, and maybe a midwestern Ag field with some CRP and a slough thrown in as a middle ground...

You often hear two statements from those with strong opinions on the matter:

1)A big running dog, where I hunt, is simply running past likely cover
and/or
2)I don't want a boot polisher, I want a dog that gets out there and hunts the country efficiently

What people miss is that both statements can be true at the same time, or true depending on cover. Plenty of hunters kill a lot of birds with Spaniels or Labs. Plenty of folks with Pointers kill plenty of birds without losing their dog every time they go out.

I do think, that if I were to go the two-dog route, I would go with a dedicated Pointer/Setter, and a flusher/retriever, either a Boykin or a Cocker or a Lab.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:08 pm

My dog was out over 500 yards in wheat stubble hunting sharptails and prairie chickens in SD a month ago. Pointed a group of pheasants an hour ago in 8-9 feet tall cane 30 yards in front of me. A Vdog worth the title should adapt to the cover and birds being hunted.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby oldtimer » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:36 pm

A DD and an EP/ES is the deadliest combo I have ever hunted over. The DD was out to 150-200 and the FT EP was out @500. Shot loads of sharpies and roosters in the same day. They both seemed to find around the same amount of birds. The DD retrieved 95% of them. Great way to hunt big country.
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