Redemption LMAO

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Redemption LMAO

Postby SMAbby » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:10 pm

:D :D Besides being the sexiest dog at the VDD-GNA test, Anka's test was anything but pretty. Just about every thing that I wasnt worried about in training, became an issue in the test. Same deal as last time. Things she was rocking at, and I have video and people to vouch for us, came apart...ish at the test.

So field was good as far as search, normally her point is pretty solid and staunch. It was not so this day. She pointed, relocated, pointed and then could see the bird, and went after it. The points were nothing like she normally does. It was loose and flaggy, which could have been the bird moving, and just not at all to my liking. She had a second better..ish point. Which gave her a 10 search, 9 point.

Drags, we ALWAYS nail the drags.
Fur drag, she went little over half way out, found a grasshopper or something, played for a second before coming back to me. I stood there and used my body to guide her back to the dragline and she restarted herself, found coco the bunny and brought her back. About 10 yards out, just before I said good girl, she decided to go over to one of the ladies that was sitting in a chair, stood in front of her for a moment before getting the idea she wasnt where she was suppose to be. She then turned and did a nice delivery.

This one I think we got the weiny on, but I dont care, it all worked out.
Feather drag. We had just about a 15-20 mph cross wind. I start her on the drag line and she goes about 10 yards down wind and b lines down the drag. She over ran, swung around in a circle, picked up the duck and returned it to me very nicely. But, the judge felt she was in an independent search???? I have never seen an independent search in a straight line before in my life....but ok. Not a biggy.

On to the Gun Sen. Duck is thrown, hits the water, I say fetch, and she stands there. WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON??? I stand there for a sec. and she dips a toe in the water and withdrawls it quickly. SHe remains standing looking at the duck, wishing it would come to her. :lol:
She leaves my side to perch on the dike and look out at the duck. Not sure ho wit happened as I was puckered so hard I think I lost blood flow to my brain, but she came down got in the water and with the judges out of earshot I offered her a good girl. The rest was uneventful.
Pucker factor astronomical

The blind......it keeps getting better. Picture a round pond with an island in the center. If I was facing the island with my dog, the duck is placed on the edge facing me. behind that is the other end of the island, a big swim gets you to the other bank.
We have done this I bet 100 time with no issue.
I line her up and send her, she is trucking across just fine. Hits the island, does not wind the duck, goes to the back of the island and takes the big swim to the other bank!!!!! WHAT THE HECK!!! :? :? She located the boat that caries the ducks out and dinks around before she catches my eyes and I threw my shoulder out giving her an over signal! Never trainiend it............it must be genetic, she took it. Picks up the duck and brings it right in to me.
Pucker factor 10

Duck search and we are done. I send her and she was really fixated on the same side shore. Which is odd to me because I NEVER have anything there. I scold my dogs for even stepping foot in either direction besides forward. She would go back and forth, swim halfway out, come back, bla bla bla. I finally got her to me and resent her. This time she went back, crossed the pond and with in seconds I watched her creeping towards the brush. a minute later she was on point, locked up tighter on this damed duck than she was on the birds in the field!!! :lol: :lol:
By the time the spectators started timing, it had to of been 2 minutes already. they timed an additional 4 minutes before she pounced, produced the duck, it was shot and she brought it in perfectly.
Pucker factor 8

The day ended well, we passed with a 172 it wasnt by any means pretty, but if it had been it wouldnt have been so memorable.

So, she has passed everything she needs to be bred. But, giving these weird events with her I have decided to test her in VGP or IMP-B before deciding if I want to breed her. Part of me thinks that this is mostly a maturity issue, but I am positive there is plenty of Diva mixed in.

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VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:54 pm

Sounds like Aris VGP!! What may go wrong will go wrong...

On to the next thing!!
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby SMAbby » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:50 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:Sounds like Aris VGP!! What may go wrong will go wrong...

On to the next thing!!


Big congrats on your VGP PI!!! With the youngest handler to ever handle a VGP dog on board! :multi: :multi: :multi:

Dam girl, I heard about the dog that got attacked by a beaver.....what was all that about? DId the dog end up passing?
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby Deuce » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:56 pm

Congrats to you both! Well done!
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby SMAbby » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:35 pm

Thanks Duece.

Super fun when the dog does its own thing!! Never had a dog like her. :D :lol:
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:19 pm

Yeah, the dog that tackled the beaver took a bad bite but came out OK. I ended up stapling her back together. Points wise she did better than Ari, she just flubbed the start of the blood track bumping her to a prize 2. Very nice dog and a nice team to work with on a stressful weekend.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby Urban_Redneck » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:41 am

Great recap!

I ran my first NA in August, my eyes were sore after the field segment- I must not have blinked for 20 minutes :D
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby SMAbby » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:02 am

Urban_Redneck wrote:Great recap!

I ran my first NA in August, my eyes were sore after the field segment- I must not have blinked for 20 minutes :D


HA,wait til you push beyond NA, then your breathing stops!!!
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:27 pm

Nice Writeup. I enjoy a good dog story - Hunting or testing. I think it is great that you went forward, ran her again and passed. Sounds like you really enjoy her, challenges and all. Post some photos and stories from your hunts this fall. Happy Hunting.
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby ryanr » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:43 am

Nice write up Mary. Isn't testing fun & so stress free? Lol.
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby Kiger2 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:13 pm

Smabby,
Nice job. I don't understand everything you wrote, but heres my two cents.

Blind,
If you send the dog on a line, it gets the island and carries the line off the island to the far shore,that is GOOD!. We don't want the dog to stop and search the island. if she smelled the bird and found it fine. But if I know where the bird was, then I would handle her to it. I would take your dog over the dog thats was sent on a line and hit the island and just started searching. What if the duck was on the far shore? Dogs aren't perfect. If they hit the island and start their search. It becomes harder to get them to LEAVE the island. Personally, if I read what you wrote correctly, I think the dog did great. Didn't smell the bird, kept on line, then took your cast. You will find that skill far more valuable than any independent search. Its a bad test if they want the dog to search the island and NOT carry the line. Its a blind retrieve, you get to tell the dog what to do, thats why we train to handle. So if you sent her on a line, she took it, and then you handled to the bird and she listened to you handle. I give her 9.5. A 10 would be if she had lined the blind. And think of this. If you can get your handling good. You can send her downwind of the bird and be sure she winds it.



Drag. Was the judge behind you when the dog went to her? If so, you probably need to work on your body language to get her to come too you. And there you go with the "good girl" again. If you can say good girl, don't say "heel". she's not a good girl until you get off the line!!! If the judge was in front, shame on them.

Duck search. I have trouble with the thinking on this. You send the dog and she swims around and comes back and then you resend her. I just don't see the value in letting the dog return. Cast her where she needs to search. If you can resend her and pass, why cant you handle her and pass?????

The duck being shot is the only thing that would concern me. A shot bird should turn the dog inside out. But again. They aren't perfect. We really have no idea how they see the world so we may not always be aware of what causes them issues. But at ret trials /tests they may ask a dog to honor another dogs retrieve. They will shoot a duck fairl close to shore and then sluice it. Your dog has to stay. Its a breaking test.

but overall, keep up there good work!!!!!
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby SMAbby » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:39 pm

Kiger2 wrote:Smabby,
Nice job. I don't understand everything you wrote, but heres my two cents.

Blind,
If you send the dog on a line, it gets the island and carries the line off the island to the far shore,that is GOOD!. We don't want the dog to stop and search the island. if she smelled the bird and found it fine. But if I know where the bird was, then I would handle her to it. I would take your dog over the dog thats was sent on a line and hit the island and just started searching. What if the duck was on the far shore? Dogs aren't perfect. If they hit the island and start their search. It becomes harder to get them to LEAVE the island. Personally, if I read what you wrote correctly, I think the dog did great. Didn't smell the bird, kept on line, then took your cast. You will find that skill far more valuable than any independent search. Its a bad test if they want the dog to search the island and NOT carry the line. Its a blind retrieve, you get to tell the dog what to do, thats why we train to handle. So if you sent her on a line, she took it, and then you handled to the bird and she listened to you handle. I give her 9.5. A 10 would be if she had lined the blind. And think of this. If you can get your handling good. You can send her downwind of the bird and be sure she winds it.

Pretty much this was just bad handling. I should have put her in a better position to hit the duck scent.From your perspective she did fine. But knowing I have trained on this water and done the same humdrum routine, she should have know where abouts the duck was. :?



Drag. Was the judge behind you when the dog went to her? If so, you probably need to work on your body language to get her to come too you. And there you go with the "good girl" again. If you can say good girl, don't say "heel". she's not a good girl until you get off the line!!! If the judge was in front, shame on them.

The actual deal was, it wasnt a judge it was a gallery member. She was standing to my left, about 10 yards and back another 10. SO, when Anka was coming in, about the time I was going to give a good girl, she turned and headed toward the person. We are allowed a good girl, but no command. Most use it to snap the dog too and get their attention set on them. The spectator wasnt the problem. The dog was. :wink:

Duck search. I have trouble with the thinking on this. You send the dog and she swims around and comes back and then you resend her. I just don't see the value in letting the dog return. Cast her where she needs to search. If you can resend her and pass, why cant you handle her and pass?????

This one is funny to me because you are spot on. ALL my dogs are taught to NEVER come back to me until you have found the object in question. However, this is a much different animal than I am used to. Because I had just 2 months to get her ready including FF, and I lack the experience to have been able to tell for sure if she was soft or a con artist, she got away with a lot on Force Fetch.This is something I will be revisiting during the summer. I decided that I wont breed this dog until I see how she handles the VGP or IMP-B. I want to see if her issues are immaturity or divaitis :lol: .

The duck being shot is the only thing that would concern me. A shot bird should turn the dog inside out. But again. They aren't perfect. We really have no idea how they see the world so we may not always be aware of what causes them issues. But at ret trials /tests they may ask a dog to honor another dogs retrieve. They will shoot a duck fairl close to shore and then sluice it. Your dog has to stay. Its a breaking test.

I dont really understand this statement. She did fine when the duck on the search. She brought it right to me. I chose to grab it before rather waiting for her to sit mostly because the day had been such drama that I didnt care about a point, just wanted the test over. 8) :lol: Thanks for the reply. I know our testing worlds kinda dont always make sense, but I think for the most part it gets the job done. I have never understood how labs would work if you didnt have a clue where the duck landed or swam off? What is the hand signal for that? :crazyeyes: :lol: :wink:



but overall, keep up there good work!!!!!
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby Kiger2 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:01 am

Smabby,

Blind. Yes you ma have put her in a better position to wind the duck on the island. But you don't want her to stop EVER to search without you permission. If she does it becomes harder to get her moving again. Take a look at a good ret training grounds. they will have lots of points or peninsulas that the dog has to cross and get back in the water, cross get back in the water, why? because they won't want to! Please remember its a blind, she may think she knows where the bird is or should be, but thats not the task, the task is to go where I send you. Lets see if this helps. You shoot a duck and she marks on the same island. She gets it and retrieves. You shoot another duck that she doesn't see fall and it land past the island on the far shore. You send her on the blind, what do you think she will do when she hits the island? She is going to start looking for the bird. And NOT go where you want. A dog will naturally want to go where they found the bird before. I don't need the dog to search the island when i know where the bird is, I need her to go to where i tell her. Imagine 4 guys in a duck blind. Here are limit is 7 birds. So all morning we have a good shoot and we have 27 birds land in the decoys, but number 28 sails off 150 yards and the dog doesn't see it. . How easy will it be for the dog to go past where they have found all the other birds? If you haven't prepared the dog to go past old falls, it aint going to get the job done. This is not TRIAL/TEST stuff. This is real life.

The dog going to the gallery was not the dogs problem, it was yours. Dog didn't think it had to return to you. I tried to tell you before, focus on the dog with your eyes, she will know you are watching. She knows your body language. She may also know that you weren't going to do anything about her not returning (most likely). If you were getting read to say good girl, she knew it. She doesn't get her good girl until you are off the line. You can train for this. Set up a test. walk her to the line. Run the test. When she's done she heels off the line a little bit right into another test. then she gets her good girl.
Please remember, she's not doing any of this so you can get a ribbon.

Duck search. Let me clear, theres two points here. One your are right about not letting her return. But my point was that why would the rules not let you handle as part of the test.? Really if you were hunting and the dog went out 200 yards would let her swim all the way back and then resend??????? No you whistle sit and cast her.

I am concerned about the duck that was on the water and she didn't just go get it. Dipping a toe with a bird on the water is perplexing. May be a one off, or may be something else. A duck on the water should make her come unglued.

Like I said, they see the world differently than we do. Good trainers (i think you are doing fine) she the world as the dog sees it.

Let me give you an example of how the dog sees the world. This is VERY common. I shoot a duck and it falls about 150 yards out behind some trees that line a small ditch. To pretty much everyone in the world, the duck is on the other side of the creek. To the dog? its on our side of the creek, so thats where she hunts. Its just natural. Did the dog mess up ? no. I did. Because i hadn't trained of this scenario.My friend gave me crap because the dog wouldnt cross the the treelike and the creek. I explained to him what was going on. 2 weeks later his dog did the same thing at another location. He explained to another guy "the dog sees the treeline as a barrier".

I think you're doing fine, really!!! keep it up!! I would love to see her on wild chukars out here.
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby cohanzick creek » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:31 am

good job
cc
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Re: Redemption LMAO

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:14 pm

Kiger - for HZP level work, the vast majority of dogs do NOT know how to handle. They take a line to the far shore and are taught to search for the duck. If we set them up well they find the duck immediately on the blind, and expand the independent search for the live duck search. So much time is spent getting the dog to search independently that many dogs do t have time to learn.

If you had a dog that DID NOT handle, how would that change your thoughts/recommendations?? As a lab guy, I'm sure this might be a foreign thought, but I'm curious. My dogs are now 3 and 4, both VGP pass level training, and neither have a whistle sit or solid handling skills. I mostly haven't trained it because I never have before so we stuck with what we knew. It's next on my list of things to learn to train.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
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