That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

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That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby SMAbby » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:11 pm

Anka is now 16 months old. I started her FF training at the end of June I think. Didnt even touch field work. Did mostly blinds, duck searches, drags etc. So I got done in about 2 months, had to learn a lot along the way because she is "Different". SO going into the HZP I wasnt super confident. My area of concern ws the duck search and only the duck search.

Start the day with field
11 search
10 point
on to drags
10 rabbit drag
10 rabbit manner
9 duck drag
9 duck manner
8 Gunsensitiviy manner

then find out at the end of the day we were at 11 coop qnd 11 desire


that is where things took a drastic turn for the worst. Taker to the blinds. We have done these and done these FLAWLESS all summer. Send her across, she walks around the island for awhile, finds the duck, picks it up and starts in the water. At this point I say "Good Girl!" It was if I had just kicked her square between the eyes! SHe took a step back, turned around and took her little ducky friend for an island tour......only thing is, she never brought him back to port!
AHHHHHHHHHHHH WTF!!!!!!!! Never has left game behind before. Never not did a blind.

So I am sitting back wondering what is next. Partially feeling sorry for myself because I had never failed a JGHV or NAVHDA test. Ha, well this lose was handed to me on a silver platter!!! :lol: :lol:
I tell you what, it puts things in perspective pretty quickly. :lol: Knocked me down a notch or 2. Not that I ever sold myself as a great trainer.
questions come up, sell the dog, see if it matures, run it again, run it in VGP. on and on. If tossing and turning in bed was considered excersise ,I would be buff by now!
there is a test in 3 weeks, should I go for it?
She will have a week off as I travel to Texas to assist my son with the burial of ET2 John Hoagland. My mind with be free of training for at least that long.

It was the KLM_GNAs first HZP and I think with great help from members, volunteers and experienced judges, it went really well. Some good dog work, some not so good, just how life it.

SOme pictures for fun. click on them for bigger picture
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby SMAbby » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:18 pm

This is me thinking.....its going to be what it will be.....but I didnt want it to be like this.



Image
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:41 pm

This one is easy. The test is obviously very important to you. And the dog did well but for one out of character flub. After doing blinds "flawless all summer".

Run it again is my vote. Good Luck but you have preparation on your side so you do not need it.
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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby Fun Dog » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:23 am

Last year I sent my dog on a duck search and she totally mucked it up. I still don't know what got into her. She went out ten feet, then came back to me. I resent her and she went to the judges and hung out with them for awhile. I resent her again and she finally went and did a decent search. Needles to say our score wasn't too good. She had been doing flawless searches so I decided to take the last spot open and run her the next day. She did not disappoint and we came away with the coveted prize 1. All that to say that I would run the dog again and trust she has a better day.
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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby SMAbby » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:02 am

Thanks.
She will have a week off while im in texas. Then not sure how to reapproach things.
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby Deuce » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:45 am

Woof, that's a tough break. Sounds like a great dog to make you learn and challenge you. The answer will be there when you get back from Texas.
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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby blue04 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:03 pm

SMAbby wrote:She will have a week off while im in texas. Then not sure how to reapproach things.


I might consider not doing anything new. I'd probably run a couple of low pressure training blinds with no talking to the dog at all. My guess is that she'll do wonderful and you can go to the next test with a low stress level.

It seems to me that she just had a brain cramp on a specific day, and she'll likely do it perfect next time.
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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby crackerd » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:59 pm

AverageGuy wrote:This one is easy. The test is obviously very important to you. And the dog did well but for one out of character flub. After doing blinds "flawless all summer".

Run it again is my vote. Good Luck but you have preparation on your side so you do not need it.


Ditto - hope you give it another shot. One question, though (actually two): Can you physically see the dog as it picks up the blind retrieve? And second, if you can see that happen from "the line," does the HZP permit you, the handler, to use a whistle for calling in your dog as soon as it happens? If the answer is yes to both questions, this - the come-in whistle - would be the "reminder" for the dog to get back to you with quarry "in tote" and get you the high score it sounds like the team otherwise deserves.

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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby SMAbby » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:00 pm

crackerd wrote:
AverageGuy wrote:This one is easy. The test is obviously very important to you. And the dog did well but for one out of character flub. After doing blinds "flawless all summer".

Run it again is my vote. Good Luck but you have preparation on your side so you do not need it.


Ditto - hope you give it another shot. One question, though (actually two): Can you physically see the dog as it picks up the blind retrieve? And second, if you can see that happen from "the line," does the HZP permit you, the handler, to use a whistle for calling in your dog as soon as it happens? If the answer is yes to both questions, this - the come-in whistle - would be the "reminder" for the dog to get back to you with quarry "in tote" and get you the high score it sounds like the team otherwise deserves.

MG


Yes, you can see the pick up of the duck.
But to quote the book:
" The dog is suppose to search for the duck independently, it must find the duck and Must retrieve this duck independently without a command from the handler when the dog behaves incorrectly"

Now it say no command if dog is acting incorrectly. But I am pretty sure that a whistle wouldnt be allowed.........because it is totally a command. They say you can speak to your dog when it is doing well,, such as good girl. But I doubt.... a whistle would be the equivalent of good girl, it would be a forceful command and you would fail.

Judges feel free to correct me, im just a young pup yet with this stuff
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby 3drahthaars » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:58 pm

Just a little insight into this evaluation...

The perfect (10/10) retrieve is:

Dog leaves handler on a single command.

Dog is expected to retrieve game on first acknowledgement.

Dog is expected to return willingly to the handler without command.

Dog is expected to sit (with or without) a single quiet command.

Dog is supposed to release game upon a single quiet command.

If your pup doesn't pick the game up upon first acknowledgement you cannot give a fetch command and it is a failure.

If it returns and veers off line you have to wait it out until it appears to be returning to you before even praising it.

Once pup is in the sphere of influence (I think about 5 yards), the retrieve is considered complete and you basically do what you have to do to get the game in hand, points start to whittle away at this point if pup doesn't come right to handler.

When I judged, if pup was B lining back to the handler I encouraged the handlers to praise the pup... if it looked like it was going to show independence I asked them to hold off until pups looked like they were back on track...

I think what separates it from the other tests is that the dog is completely out of the sphere of influence at the retrieve... 200 to 300 yards out of sight! He/she can easily give you the "toe" for sure.

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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby SMAbby » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:00 pm

Well, back from Texas "The greatest country in the world"

I have her entered in a test in 2 weeks.

Been doing very little training. SOme duck rets.

I took her out to train and stuck with my plan of 1 duck blind, 1 duck search and gone. So, my drive is 4 hours round trip and it takes me 45 to accomplish the work.

She did the blind with no trouble. The duck search was about a 9 maybe 10.

She seemed to like that I had a towel at the water to dry her off right away. Before we start talking sissy dog talk, she is 40 pounds soaking wet, open coat and not an ounce of fat. Water temp is a cool 47 degrees.......spring water
If I have to blow dry and curl her ear hairs to get her to have a good day......at this point I will do it. :lol:

There is a UT test on Sunday and I will play with her in the water after the test, and then maybe once more on the following Wednesday.
Wish us luck!
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby Kiger2 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:33 pm

The rules are the problem. There is no reason in the world to not give the dog a reminder as crackered has suggested. I send that whistle so that it hits the dog as he is picking up the bird or as soon as I know he has it. I want that dog to think "heel" when he picks up the bird. It tells the dog Im paying attention and Im going to insist on proper performance.

Also never turn your back on the dog to talk to the judges while the dog is working. A dog can tell from 300 yards away if you are paying attention or not. If you're not, he may choose to do whatever it is that will embarrass you.

Second, good girl is the wrong term. You reserve that until you get the bird in hand. She may have thought you had released her and while roaming the island she found something she wanted to go back and check out.

Remember, voice commands can be much softer on the water than on land since sound carries better. Too loud and it can cause problems.

I would keep training but focus on returning quickly. Cant imagine you've put enough pressure on the dog that it needs a break.

When you are on the line, its business. You need to have fun , but its business until the task is complete. Otherwise you'll have some other issue show up.
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Re: That HZP was a lesson in reality! WOWSERS!

Postby SMAbby » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:58 pm

well said K2! I agree.
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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