Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:47 pm

A GWP killin a cat is just doin what comes naturally. No owner Machismo required.

The Coyotes kill the fox, and the cats, the wolves kill the coyotes, the Mt Lions kills the Bobcats, the eagles kill the falcons/hawks, the Owls kill the hawks, Otters kill the mink, mink kill the weasel, boar bears kill cubs, Male lions the same, wolves from one pack kill members of another pack ... Predators kill the lesser predators every chance they get.

Not realistic to have the degree of prey drive in some breeds and expect them to ignore a stray cat particularly when the handler is not present.

If I let a parrot out it's cage and it flies next door where the neighbor's cat kills it, does anyone expect any different outcome?

I have been able to control/train a GWP to not kill a specific barn cat on our premises provided I am around and the cat does not do something stupid to provoke the dog. Stray cats are vermin.

So Thankful we live on a farm.
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby 3drahthaars » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:37 pm

No excuses...

When one owns a dog with such prey drive it comes with a responsibility (in civilization).

Lots of omega handlers hiding behind their alpha DDs...

The real machismo is in the guy who has control enough to stop his dog on a cat or similar animal.

Like I said... that is where my respect goes... seen one to date...

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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:49 pm

This board seems to be going downhill.

A breed with a hardness test to breed certify for 100 years is going to kill cats. BS about owners' macho problems is just BS. I do not ever let my dogs roam unsupervised. Cat owners should do the same or bear the consequences when they do otherwise.
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby ForestDump » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:38 am

It's really not hard to stop your dog from chasing or killing cats. No harder than it is to get them to stop doing anything else that comes naturally to them that you don't want them doing. I don't let my dogs chase everything with fur, feather, or feet in the field but they still have plenty of prey drive to hunt what I want them to hunt.

It's a cop out which I have to agree with some of the members on here that some people think its cool or it means they have an alpha dog. If you can stop your dog from chasing deer you can stop it from chasing cats.
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby hicntry » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:58 am

ForestDump wrote:It's really not hard to stop your dog from chasing or killing cats. No harder than it is to get them to stop doing anything else that comes naturally to them that you don't want them doing. I don't let my dogs chase everything with fur, feather, or feet in the field but they still have plenty of prey drive to hunt what I want them to hunt.

It's a cop out which I have to agree with some of the members on here that some people think its cool or it means they have an alpha dog. If you can stop your dog from chasing deer you can stop it from chasing cats.


Oh, I agree 100%. If I am standing right there and have a leash on them, yes, I can stop them. Unlike many here, my dogs have free run of the back yard and are not normally supervised. Even your dogs are going to chase and kill cats when you aren't right there to stop them. And yes, I could keep mine from running deer when hunting.....only because they knew what they were hunting......and it wasn't deer.

Another point....it doesn't take an alpha dog to kill a cat. Just about any dog can do it. Any one that can stop their dog in pursuit of a cat with a voice command....well....you probably have the dog you deserve to have.
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:32 am

ForestDump wrote:It's really not hard to stop your dog from chasing or killing cats. No harder than it is to get them to stop doing anything else that comes naturally to them that you don't want them doing. I don't let my dogs chase everything with fur, feather, or feet in the field but they still have plenty of prey drive to hunt what I want them to hunt.

It's a cop out which I have to agree with some of the members on here that some people think its cool or it means they have an alpha dog. If you can stop your dog from chasing deer you can stop it from chasing cats.


When I am around and I have an ecollar on my dogs I lay good odds I can control them. And when I am not around they are in a locked kennel. But several folks in this thread post of situations where their dogs are in the fenced back yard unsupervised and the neighbors' free range, against the law, cat wanders in. No one should realistically expect a Vdog to not kill the cat under those circumstances. A dog raised to live with a specific cat does not transfer to stray cats they encounter particularly when the handler is not present.
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby hicntry » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:04 pm

AG, I don't think it is just Vdawgs, any dog outside of the mini varieties are cat aggressive. My dogs aren't even considered sporting dawgs and a cats life expectancy is slim to none.
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby hicntry » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:04 pm

xxx
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:26 pm

hicntry wrote:AG, I don't think it is just Vdawgs, any dog outside of the mini varieties are cat aggressive. My dogs aren't even considered sporting dawgs and a cats life expectancy is slim to none.


Yep, Terriers are the number #1 Vermin dog. Dogs and Cats are natural enemies. A good handler can control their dog when they are around within reason. When the handler is not around my advice to stray cats is get treed quick, or better yet stay in your own yard like dogs are required to do...
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby booger » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:03 pm

3drahthaars wrote:No excuses...

When one owns a dog with such prey drive it comes with a responsibility (in civilization).

Lots of omega handlers hiding behind their alpha DDs...

The real machismo is in the guy who has control enough to stop his dog on a cat or similar animal.

Like I said... that is where my respect goes... seen one to date...

3ds


Wouldn't the same responsibility fall on the cat owner for letting their cat roam free?

I must have missed the post where people were getting amped up about killing their neighbor's cats...
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby 3drahthaars » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:54 pm

booger wrote:
3drahthaars wrote:No excuses...

When one owns a dog with such prey drive it comes with a responsibility (in civilization).

Lots of omega handlers hiding behind their alpha DDs...

The real machismo is in the guy who has control enough to stop his dog on a cat or similar animal.

Like I said... that is where my respect goes... seen one to date...

3ds


Wouldn't the same responsibility fall on the cat owner for letting their cat roam free?

I must have missed the post where people were getting amped up about killing their neighbor's cats...


Control IS control... the dog is a weapon.

Feral cat today neighbor's cat, wiener dog, whatever tomorrow.

If one reinforces the behaviour... need the control.
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby hicntry » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:30 pm

Control, something many think they have mastered......until the right situation comes along. Then they say, "Well, ol Fido has never done that before. LOL Too little , and, many times too late. I have total control of Tucco. He is either in the back yard or on a heavy leash with a heavy choker. I don't take the precautions for cats. I take it for the rotties and bull dogs that are very popular here because many of the owners of these breeds are chest thumpers and get off when their dogs show aggression. They simply have no idea of what a real can of whoop a$$ looks like. I do and quit taking Tucco for walks because of it. Control means you realise your dogs potential and accept the responsibility of owning certain dogs. Cats are not chest thumping material and if a cat gets in my yard I would prefer my dogs don't catch it only because of the aggravation required to dispose of it....very quietly. LOL
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby ForestDump » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:40 pm

I have never allowed a dog to remain in the backyard unsupervised simply because I know the trouble they can and will get into. So in that respect I can agree there's no way of being for sure your dog won't get into something it shouldn't andantone who thinks their dog NEVER would do something it's not supposed to is just as bad. When my dogs are in the yard they are chained out because I have seen too many dogs clear privacy fences. Under supervision they are taught to ignore everything because I don't like having my arm jerked off or the optics of an out of control dog. In the pitbull world that's a a mess of trouble and in the fuzzy dog world it's at the very least a conversation I don't want to have.
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:48 pm

Control over a dog is variable.

My pup earned a Prize 1 UT at 18 months. He remembered his lessons vs blowing up and going a chasing when the gunners missed 5 of 7 birds he hunted up and pointed. Steady by the Blind was perfect. At about 11 minutes in his Duck Search the Judges said they had seen enough and instructed me to call him in. He was 150 yards in heavy flooded timber working a scent trail of the duck he had produced shortly before and I was able to get him to break off and return to heel. Of course no ecollar in the test. The dog demonstrated trained OB in the presence of game well above average.

That is a far cry from whether I could break him off a hot pursuit of a cat once it is already full blown when I become aware of it. I predict that could only be possible with an Ecollar.

This pup tracked and treed the first coon it encountered at 4 months of age, has tracked and retrieved many, many possums, run coyotes before I used ecollar stimulation to break him off, tracked a fox a couple hundred yards before I toned him off with the ecollar tone, a summer waterwork session found him digging furiously in a muskrat den at the lakes edge. He tracked 250 yards and recovered the first deer I put him on with no prior training. It is called Natural Ability.

When we went to Porcupine Avoidance training in Boise this summer I saw an appalling lack of control over the vast majority of dogs present. Same at our Vet's office. So yea there is a generic problem with owners having control over their dogs.

The OP was a cat wandering loose unsupervised off its owner's premise and presumably illegal, stalking the OP's training pigeons when his dog rounds the corner of the yard and encounters the cat at close range.

I conclude the Cat's owner is at fault and find no need for Freudian analysis of the dog's owner related to his dog giving chase ...
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Re: Dogs v. (neigbors' cat)

Postby JONOV » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:22 pm

mahlon wrote:I am a little surprised about the responses to this thread so far. Where I grew up, hunters shot all cats on sight because of the damage they do to the game population. The number of loose cats in the woods is higher than ever. Every spring I often see my neighbors cats walk through the yard with a baby rabbit. They also patrol the bird feeders and kill many and leave them.
I feel the same way about feral cats, but this is a conversation about the neighbor's pets.

mahlon wrote:ICats are a protected invasive species these days. May neighbor is a cat colony. She has 20 to 30 cats at her house all the time. She will take any cat that is not wanted and let it loose 100 yards from my house. She feeds them but otherwise lets them run loose. I see them hunting on my game cams a quarter mile from her house. Her colony is encouraged by the Peta types for saving the lives of innocent little kittens. They don't seem to care about the almost non-existent rabbit and grouse population in out area. Feral cats should be fair game and letting them loose intentionally should be against the law.
I don't disagree, but fostering a cat colony is different than a neighbor that lets Mr. Tibbles outside in the mornings. I've shot a couple of cats when out hunting, but I'm not lining sights on my BB gun in my neighborhood.

mahlon wrote:So I appreciate the service my two DD's provide. They will kill any cat that comes on my property and get about one a month. Those they don't kill soon learn not to come close to our place. This has caused a little friction with the neighbor but I think I am on pretty solid ground as long as my dogs stay on my property. We had a dispute when my dog jumped a cat on my property and chased it over to hers and killed in a few feet away from her. Since the chase started on my property she had little to complain about.
I think I would also be actively trapping the cats and driving them to a shelter three counties away. What a mess. I can't imagine what her place smells like.

blueblood wrote:This is an issue I have made my neighbors aware of. I have made it clear that my dogs will dispatch a cat, and I will not try and stop it if it is on my land/property/yard. Once their cat is off their land, they are fare game. I have had zero problems. I do not care for cats, especially stray feral cats.


That is such an arrogant attitude to adopt. Look, if a cat gets into my (fully fenced in) back yard, so be it; I can only do what I can do, and that cat better be quick. But I'm not going to sit there and saber-rattle at my neighbors about Gus killing their pets. What good is that going to do? Dogs chase cats, its a fact of life. They know that.

If you want to have little man syndrome and thump your chest about your dog's predatory pursuits, have fun, but what is that going to gain you?

Something happens and your dog gets out...do you want a phone call, "Hey blue, I think your dogs in our yard..." or do you want Animal Control knocking on your door and handing you a ticket?

What if it chases the cat into the road? Do you want that phone call? And if you're the guy that bragged about his dog killing cats to the neighbors, I can guarantee you your neighbor will be filing a claim against your homeowners insurance to fix the grill on his Prius after they hit and killed your dog.

Do you want a friendly wave when you throw a ball in the local park or a call to the police and a visit from Barney Fife about the leash ordinance? Two of my old neighbors didn't get along (don't know why, or how/if the dog factored in...) and one wasn't a dog person. She did call the cops on the neighbor about a leash ordinance. In a fenced in, unused city park soccer pitch. And the neighbor got a ticket for throwing a tennis ball for his dog.

She was just a difficult, spiteful person but not at all crazy; if your neighbor turns out to be a real wingnut, your attitude is the kind that will get you a keyed car, or something much darker like a pool of antifreeze over your fence...I know a guy with a dog that got poisoned too.

I dislike cats, quite a bit. But I don't dislike them more than I recognize my need to live among my neighbors. And keeping my dog off the neighborhood kitty population isn't that difficult.

AverageGuy wrote:Control over a dog is variable.

Of course no ecollar in the test. The dog demonstrated trained OB in the presence of game well above average.

That is a far cry from whether I could break him off a hot pursuit of a cat once it is already full blown when I become aware of it. I predict that could only be possible with an Ecollar.
That's my experience. I've successfully heeled him past a cat before, but breaking him off a chase would require frying him with the collar cranked to 11.

AverageGuy wrote:The OP was a cat wandering loose unsupervised off its owner's premise and presumably illegal, stalking the OP's training pigeons when his dog rounds the corner of the yard and encounters the cat at close range.

I conclude the Cat's owner is at fault and find no need for Freudian analysis of the dog's owner related to his dog giving chase ...


I agree with you regarding the OP...especially if he has a pigeon coop, I doubt the neighbors are immediately close...The more rural a cat, the more likely things are to happen to it anyway.
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