How to choose "pick of the litter"

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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby hicntry » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:38 pm

In regards to the reasoning behind the way AG and myself pick pups for ourselves is obviously different than others describe their methods. The reason for the way AG and myself pick is to get the strongest pup because that is what we want. To be honest, the vast majority would not enjoy the pups we end up with. The pups we end up with are the pups that get crated all the time and the owners describe as to much of a hard charger to leave unsupervised in the house. People that make claims such as this think they are fooling other outside of themselves. The fact is that they have more dog than they can handle and don't know what to do with it. AG's picks, and mine, are not what the vast majority of people need. Because of this, most people are probably better off without knowing how to pick the strongest in the litter. I would suggest most would be better off letting the breeder pick, but, apparently the are a lot of breeders that don't know what they have bred until they are tested in NA.....so I would say you are safer closing your eyes and grabbing one, or, pick the first one that comes to you as most that don't know what they are doing would do.
Last edited by hicntry on Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby bhennessy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:37 am

ryanr wrote:...that for the average puppy buyer, having pick of the litter probably doesn't matter much, especially if that buyer only sees the litter on the day they pick. Yet, so many people think it's crucial but don't have the expertise to actually know how to truly pick the "pick of the litter." In that regard, I think it's obviously her important to pick the breeding and know the parents. Then just trust in the breeding, grab a puppy and go with it.


The same point I was trying to get across, but you did a much better job Ryanr. I was, and still am to some extent, the guy you are talking about without a lot of experience. I found it interesting that I gave two different breeders the same information and got two completely different pups in terms of personality but very similar in terms of what we think of as desireable inherited traits for Vdogs, and Griffs in particular. Happily, my little snowflake puppy seems to be just as bird crazy and driven in the field as my 3 yr old blunt object/monster who doesn't have a "middle setting".

Perhaps I just got lucky, or, I think it's more likely that I picked good breeders and as a novice my range of acceptable pups is also wider than others. Which I think is Hicntry's point perhaps.
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby STait » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:41 am

As a breeder the only ones I pick for myself are considered "grizzly's". They are a lot of dog, but I believe the extreme side of the litter is the ones that should be bred to keep moving forward. If I'm not keeping any puppies, then I look for the right person to place the "extreme" pup with. I love the dog with "the most"!
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby Coveyrise64 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:57 am

STait wrote:As a breeder the only ones I pick for myself are considered "grizzly's". They are a lot of dog, but I believe the extreme side of the litter is the ones that should be bred to keep moving forward. If I'm not keeping any puppies, then I look for the right person to place the "extreme" pup with. I love the dog with "the most"!


+1
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:17 pm

STait wrote:As a breeder the only ones I pick for myself are considered "grizzly's". They are a lot of dog, but I believe the extreme side of the litter is the ones that should be bred to keep moving forward. If I'm not keeping any puppies, then I look for the right person to place the "extreme" pup with. I love the dog with "the most"!


+2
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby hicntry » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:31 pm

Well, +3.
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby gwp4me2 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:30 pm

I would guess that there are more well-bred puppies that people give up on for being too much dog than for being duds. The 'super' dogs can be a real pain to get a handle on and they better be in the hands of somebody willing to pay the price.Those pups should also go to owners who have the ability to get them out A LOT. A smart, highly driven dog left in a kennel is going to become a problem dog. I people need to be educated about what it is that is really a good fit for them. Most of those middle-of-the-pack puppies out of good litters can be great hunting dogs and companions. Very few of us go out and walk after chukars for 6-8 hours day after day, etc. Choose a breeder who consistently produces good dogs, guarantees them, and wait your turn. I work with a breeder who has produced 29 litters over the years and I think he has taken back 2 'duds'. He has taken back more that were too much dog for the owners. I have to test one of those 'over the top' dogs UT tomorrow. We'll see which dog shows up. I would bet a lot of money she will get a 4 in desire.
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby gwp4me2 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:24 pm

gwp4me2 wrote:I would guess that there are more well-bred puppies that people give up on for being too much dog than for being duds. The 'super' dogs can be a real pain to get a handle on and they better be in the hands of somebody willing to pay the price.Those pups should also go to owners who have the ability to get them out A LOT. A smart, highly driven dog left in a kennel is going to become a problem dog. I people need to be educated about what it is that is really a good fit for them. Most of those middle-of-the-pack puppies out of good litters can be great hunting dogs and companions. Very few of us go out and walk after chukars for 6-8 hours day after day, etc. Choose a breeder who consistently produces good dogs, guarantees them, and wait your turn. I work with a breeder who has produced 29 litters over the years and I think he has taken back 2 'duds'. He has taken back more that were too much dog for the owners. I have to test one of those 'over the top' dogs UT tomorrow. We'll see which dog shows up. I would bet a lot of money she will get a 4 in desire.


We ended up 182 pz 2. Not what we were hoping for but certainly a fair evaluation. She made lots of little mistakes that all added up, or should I say subtracted to cause several 3's. Mostly because she is just a tough, independent dog like we've talked about and I'm not that great of trainer. She has never associated the punishment with the crime for most things and especially FF. She did great in everything that really matters for hunting. Things like saying her name because she passed me by to go check the judges on retrieves go unnoticed while hunting. We can now have 5 months of working with wild birds shotgun in hand.
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:45 pm

gwp4me2 wrote:We ended up 182 pz 2. Not what we were hoping for but certainly a fair evaluation. She made lots of little mistakes that all added up, or should I say subtracted to cause several 3's. Mostly because she is just a tough, independent dog like we've talked about and I'm not that great of trainer. She has never associated the punishment with the crime for most things and especially FF. She did great in everything that really matters for hunting. Things like saying her name because she passed me by to go check the judges on retrieves go unnoticed while hunting. We can now have 5 months of working with wild birds shotgun in hand.


Congratulations to both of you! Happy Hunting.
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby JONOV » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:30 pm

Gary Lester washed out Shell Creek Coin And sold him...Shell Creek went on to win at Ames...what does that tell you? To me it says that filtering out for the extremely obvious problem dogs (a timid frady cat or a bully) it's a roll of the dice...
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby Highlander » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:23 pm

Just my 2 cents.

I am usually interested in puppies that have following characteristics:

"Objective" characteristics:

- The ones that are brave and don't hesitate to approach a unknown man
- The ones that are eager to get into play as soon as they get familiar with you
- The ones that you put on their back and start fighting to get out
- The ones that react against the smell of food, even when they play and try to find it with using nose
- The ones that are well fed
- The ones that lobe go exploring backyard
- The ones that have stronger, beefier bone structure
- The ones with correct and well developed heads


"Subjective" characteristics:
- The color. I like full brown or brown and dark gray color in GSP, DK or DD. I don'y like I like full black pointers, but I don't like white and brown combination in EP.
- Age
- A pappy from small litter group vs big litter group
- cropped tail vs not cropped tail
- The oldest one vs the youngest one.

Also, I do understand it is very difficult to pick up a puppy form a distance. Especially if it's in different state or country.
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:21 pm

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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby TruAblePup » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:13 pm

Highlander wrote:Just my 2 cents.

I am usually interested in puppies that have following characteristics:

"Objective" characteristics:

- The ones that are brave and don't hesitate to approach a unknown man
- The ones that are eager to get into play as soon as they get familiar with you
- The ones that you put on their back and start fighting to get out
- The ones that react against the smell of food, even when they play and try to find it with using nose
- The ones that are well fed
- The ones that lobe go exploring backyard
- The ones that have stronger, beefier bone structure
- The ones with correct and well developed heads


The pup I just picked up meets all those requirements. He has quite a bit of fire in him however. More than what the breeder preferred for himself. He breeds for more laid back dogs. He is a real handful right now. I will work with him however. It will pay off in the long run.
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby oldtimer » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:53 pm

My DD was one of 14. I visited the litter 4 times. One dog was always 50 yards from all of the others searching. I picked her. Best dog I have ever owned, and I have owned a ton of them.
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Re: How to choose "pick of the litter"

Postby Expert » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:32 pm

Most top pro-breeders will not let you futz around on multiple trips to their kennel trying to pick the best puppy. The shy can become bold, the runt big, and the ADD one can become focused. Best to go with a real pro breeder and let them pick the dog for you based on your conversations with them. Trust the breeder to do their job.

I suppose if you have a back yard breeder with some good dogs, you might know as much as they do, and picking your dog might make some sense, but if you go with a professional, trust their knowledge.
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