New To The Griff World

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New To The Griff World

Postby orhunter » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:56 pm

This was just brought to my attention. Passing it on.

Oops... Will try again.....

http://nahgba.com/?lang=en
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby bhennessy » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:29 am

Can't be a bad thing for the breed I suspect. Although much depends on how many leading breeders of field dogs they get to go along. Seems like they are tearing a page out of the Pudelpointer playbook?
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby Bill in Oregon » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:00 am

Wishing them the best, Harvey.
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby hicntry » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:48 pm

Another organization of v dogs with the purpose of breeding better dogs? Why would people believe better dogs are going to be produced when the organization is made up of people that aren't producing superior dogs individually. Let's be realistic for a moment. If an individual breeder is already producing a superior dog, it would be detrimental for that breeder to tie himself/herself to an organization that, by it's own admission, has a sole purpose of breeding better dogs than what they are breeding as individuals.
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby bhennessy » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:24 pm

I suppose there are two types of breeders then. I hope the guys starting this particular alliance are not the every man for themselves type, but rather are thinking more of what is good for the breed as a whole, especially as it gets more popular with non hunters. This approach seems to have worked well for the PP, hasn't it?

I can't speak intelligently to if the four founding breeders are individually already producing great Griffs, but if not then perhaps it's just marketing, however I doubt that. Good on them I say for devoting their time and energies to something bigger than their own immediate interests and 100% aligned with ours. Until proven wrong I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby hicntry » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:46 pm

"This approach seems to have worked well for the PP, hasn't it? "

Now that is the question. Are the PP's better, or, the same good all around dogs.

Personally, I find it hard to picture someone that is already breeding top dogs, falling into a trap like this. They don't need the organization near as much as the organization needs them......for credibility ya know.
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby carramrod » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:12 pm

hicntry wrote:
Personally, I find it hard to picture someone that is already breeding top dogs, falling into a trap like this. They don't need the organization near as much as the organization needs them......for credibility ya know.


I'd say not just credibility but also hopefully passing along info and ideas to the next generation through an organization.

I agree though most good breeders would be good across breeds because of their standards.
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby JTracyII » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:18 pm

hicntry wrote: Let's be realistic for a moment. If an individual breeder is already producing a superior dog, it would be detrimental for that breeder to tie himself/herself to an organization...


Don't see how it would hurt the breeder either. The good that might come from it would be expertise shared to the other breeders as well as a common goal for them all to work towards.
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby hicntry » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:43 pm

"Don't see how it would hurt the breeder either."

It will hurt a breeder of good dogs by association with breeders that can't even tell which pups they have raised have the most potential.....and there is more than a few here. JTracy, you know first hand that people don't want to learn. You aren't even a breeder and you have disagreed with most of what I have said since you got your first dog. LOL You get one breeder of good dogs and the rest will tell him he is wrong every time . Most likely because he is willing to put more effort into his dogs than the rest.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby JTracyII » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:13 pm

hicntry wrote:You get one breeder of good dogs and the rest will tell him he is wrong every time .


The results will speak on the behalf of a good breeder. Not much else matters. There are great breeders and less than great breeders in the VDD and other breeders organizations. I don't look at the great breeders as being any less than they are because they are a part of the same group as a lesser breeder. They stand on their own merit in my mind. Why do you dislike breeders deciding to join together to work for a common goal? I know you didn't do it this way and you liked your results. I'm sure others liked your results too. This is just another way to work towards getting things done. And plenty of people seem to like the results of this way as well.
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby hicntry » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:20 am

So predictable. LOL Thanks for proving my point JTracy. By the way, did you know that if you shackle a young elephant by the leg when he is young, blah, blah, blah.
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby orhunter » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:08 am

Steve Brodeur has been contributing to the North American Griff gene pool through the importation of French dogs for quite a while. Although I haven't heard anything about him for several years I would think the group is in good hands. But, it is small and I think it will remain a Canadian based organization. The top breeders in the United States aren't much interested in forming or joining any kind of group which is why it will probably remain Canadian. I could see how some lower 48 breeders who might want to improve their own gene pool and recognize the benefit of an organization, might be tempted.
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:22 am

Down through history the majority of the strongest lines of dogs have been developed by single breeders is the trend I observe.

Where would the PP breed be in the US presently without the heavy use of Cedarwoods dogs all around?

It is about genetics, not the physical location of the dogs or who owns them, so there is nothing that genetically prevents an Alliance from working to produce excellent dogs.

What most commonly does prevent it however is Human Natures' inability to agree on a common standard of performance, type and priorities, and stick to it. Which explains the rigidity in the VDD.

For small scale Breeders I think an Alliance is their best shot. They can also expand their scale by developing a network of reliable hunters qualified to develop, hunt, train and evaluate their dogs so their potential breeding stock does not all have to reside at their kennel location.

I think we might all be hard pressed to name a distinct line of excellent dogs that were produced under the Alliance format however. The trend is most of them come from large single Breeder kennels and small scale Breeders ride those large scale Breeders' coattails using dogs from their lines. Which can easily produce excellent dogs for awhile at least.
Last edited by AverageGuy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby JTracyII » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:35 am

hicntry wrote:So predictable. LOL Thanks for proving my point JTracy. By the way, did you know that if you shackle a young elephant by the leg when he is young, blah, blah, blah.


Looks like we are both predictable. I was in the fact that I was trying to have a mature, thoughtful discussion, and you, well, for other reasons (observe your quote above for clues)... :wink:
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Re: New To The Griff World

Postby orhunter » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:52 am

AG: Dog "lines" are kind of a vague term. Strict line breeding is kind of a thing of the past and not necessary to produce good dogs. Complete out crosses work just fine as long as these pairings are done with purpose and knowledge. Lots of good, genetically clean dogs out there, if a person takes the time to look. Random pairings still exist in those less concerned with the outcome, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, depends on the standards the breeder is willing to accept.
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