Closer working dogs?

General Sporting Dog Discussion

Moderator: Moderator Pack

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby oldtimer » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:14 pm

AverageGuy wrote:Not at all knocking the WPG breed but their relative inability to handle heat as well as some other breeds with different conformation and coats, would have me looking for a different breed for hunting quail in NM.

OT - Walking Grouse trials are run on wild Ruffed Grouse. The point I was making is if a dog is hunting for birds vs just running it will adapt to different birds in different terrain pretty well with a little experience. If instead the dog is simply compelled to run, as some are, they will likely not adapt very well. I have seen both types.


I agree. I have had some FT bred dogs that liked to hear the wind whistle through their ears, and I have had some that were fantastic.
oldtimer
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:27 pm

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby orhunter » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:30 pm

A dog that doesn't get "out there," is like hunting with no dog at all. The dog is supposed to be the hunter, the human is the shooter.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7201
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby Spindog » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:01 pm

Bill,
This is a difficult question your best bet is to go to all your physical therapy sessions and pay close attention. :)
Dan J.
Guinness Da Grazia Male Spinone RIP Buddy
Macello Da Grazia Male Spinone 9 Brown & White
.ǝɯıʇ ɐ ʇɐ pɹıq ǝuo uʍop ǝpısdn p1ɹoʍ bop pɹıq ǝɥʇ buıuɹnʇ .ǝuouıds uɐı1ɐʇı
User avatar
Spindog
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:58 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby STait » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:28 pm

AG, I have no doubt the GWP has very dense undercoat, even compared to setters. I didn't mean to compare the breeds. Just think an extra 5 lbs can come off with the right conditioning, and that combined with a shave might extend that dogs heat range. Even if only 5 degrees. The pro in Canada I have a couple dogs with has lots of setters at camp and he shaves them monthly. Says it's a pain in the rear, but what you have to when you have days above 100*.
STait
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby orhunter » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:53 pm

I sheared the Griff down to less than 1/4 inch a month ago and still can't find skin. Blame it on the breeder!!!
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7201
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby ryanr » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:05 pm

STait wrote:AG, I have no doubt the GWP has very dense undercoat, even compared to setters. I didn't mean to compare the breeds. Just think an extra 5 lbs can come off with the right conditioning, and that combined with a shave might extend that dogs heat range. Even if only 5 degrees. The pro in Canada I have a couple dogs with has lots of setters at camp and he shaves them monthly. Says it's a pain in the rear, but what you have to when you have days above 100*.


I have a slick coated DD, they still have that undercoat. He's in fantastic shape, no excess fat. A rock solid 70lbs. I heat condition him as much as I can. He's even a bit thin of coat underneath. Even with all that he still doesn't tolerate sunny, warm days over 70 all that well- unless he's consistently in and out of water. We're in Northeast Pennsylvania, I can't imagine what would happen running him in New Mexico temperatures. I'd imagine the smaller size & lighter build of the setters (compared to DD/GWPs) aids their heat tolerance as much shaving them does.
ryanr
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2047
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:54 pm
Location: Lehighton, PA

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby hicntry » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:25 pm

Ryan brings up a good point with the build. Thick chested dogs are better suited for cold water retrieving and such as they retain heat better. Narrow, deep chested dogs are better suited for hot areas as they dissipate heat better.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
hicntry
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3532
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:22 pm
Location: North Fork, CA

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby oldtimer » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Wirehaired breeds just do not do well in heat. Ep, GAP, etc. I had Grits that could handle hot weather.
oldtimer
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:27 pm

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby ForestDump » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:05 am

An English cocker might best fit your needs here.
User avatar
ForestDump
Seasoned
Seasoned
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:42 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby gwp4me2 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:34 pm

There are always things that can be done to help mitigate a problem but why not start with the best option to begin with?
Heat tolerance = small, thin, short coat. Vizsla, GSP, EP, Braques(that I have seen)
Cold weather = heavy coat, larger body, etc, etc. DD/GWP, RHSP? WPG
Short range = high cooperation, WPG, Vizsla, certain lines of many breeds, DK, Braques(that I have seen)

Now start looking for which breeds show up in the right categories. I've seen some really weird breeds in the pheasant fields but that doesn't mean they are a good choice.
gwp4me2
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby Bill in Oregon » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:17 am

Interesting about the Deutsche Kurzhaar -- apparently not quite the same as a GSP.
Bill in Oregon
Started
Started
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:13 am
Location: Salem, Oregon

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby orhunter » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:55 am

A properly bred WPG is anything but, short range.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7201
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby oldtimer » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:47 pm

I have never understood why people think DDs and Wirehairs are bootlickers. The ones I have owned and been around adjust to cover. 3-400 yards when sharptail hunting, 200 and in phez hunting, 100 and in Ruff grouse hunting in the upper midwest.
oldtimer
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:27 pm

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby gwp4me2 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:22 am

orhunter wrote:A properly bred WPG is anything but, short range.

Then I'm guessing that 'properly bred WPGs' are very much in the minority. I've seen lots at tests and most have a top speed of a trot. I've rarely seen one with an animated search.
gwp4me2
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: Closer working dogs?

Postby orhunter » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:51 am

GWP. You're not seeing the good ones. My little girl never did anything at a trot. She was one of those, now where the hell did she go, dogs. As athletic as any of the other breeds known as big runners. Her range limit was around 300 yards, depending on where we were hunting. The dog I brought out from Wisconsin was the same, I wonder who's dog that is over there, type dogs.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7201
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Shooter, Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests