Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby daeion » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:01 pm

I still think you owe it to yourself to go see some in action before writing them off. I'm rather new to hunting so I guess I don't know a lot about range, but a big range has never seemed attractive to me and I always hear people complaining about English Setters ranging too far.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby SMAbby » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:53 pm

I would agree with lack of range for what you need. I hvae seen very few that break more than 100 yards. Max is one and now I have this young one that I swear is a throughbred. But I like that. I just let them run as pups and never hack them in unless it is a safety thing. Not sure if this has helped with the range or if they are just the different.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby JONOV » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:42 pm

daeion wrote:I still think you owe it to yourself to go see some in action before writing them off. I'm rather new to hunting so I guess I don't know a lot about range, but a big range has never seemed attractive to me and I always hear people complaining about English Setters ranging too far.

Or Pointers. But many setters and pointers are bred for horseback field trials, and bred specifically to have a lot of run.

OP specifically mentioned Chukar hunting, which as I understand it is wide open boot leather hunting a dog that stays underfoot is useless.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby SMAbby » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:28 pm

JONOV wrote:
daeion wrote:I still think you owe it to yourself to go see some in action before writing them off. I'm rather new to hunting so I guess I don't know a lot about range, but a big range has never seemed attractive to me and I always hear people complaining about English Setters ranging too far.

Or Pointers. But many setters and pointers are bred for horseback field trials, and bred specifically to have a lot of run.

OP specifically mentioned Chukar hunting, which as I understand it is wide open boot leather hunting a dog that stays underfoot is useless.


I would not go as far as to say that an SM hunts under foot. They are not boot lickers and if one happens to be, its an owner issue and not a breed trait.
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby RowdyGSP » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:58 pm

Or Pointers. But many setters and pointers are bred for horseback field trials, and bred specifically to have a lot of run.

OP specifically mentioned Chukar hunting, which as I understand it is wide open boot leather hunting a dog that stays underfoot is useless.[/quote]

I duck and goose hunt about 50% of the time, so a pointer is not an option. I do like them though.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby daeion » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:04 am

SMAbby wrote:
JONOV wrote:
daeion wrote:I still think you owe it to yourself to go see some in action before writing them off. I'm rather new to hunting so I guess I don't know a lot about range, but a big range has never seemed attractive to me and I always hear people complaining about English Setters ranging too far.

Or Pointers. But many setters and pointers are bred for horseback field trials, and bred specifically to have a lot of run.

OP specifically mentioned Chukar hunting, which as I understand it is wide open boot leather hunting a dog that stays underfoot is useless.


I would not go as far as to say that an SM hunts under foot. They are not boot lickers and if one happens to be, its an owner issue and not a breed trait.


So far through the training I've done I would certainly not say my SM hunts underfoot, unless always begin 50-100 yds away from me is considered under foot.

(corrections, I originally said 50-100 ft, meant 50-100 yds)
Last edited by daeion on Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby jlw034 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:14 am

daeion wrote:
So far through the training I've done I would certainly not say my SM hunts underfoot, unless always begin 50-100 ft away from me is considered under foot.


For guys out west, that would be 'underfoot'

For a Midwest ruffed grouse hunter, that would be good range.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby JONOV » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:30 am

SMAbby wrote:
JONOV wrote:
daeion wrote:I still think you owe it to yourself to go see some in action before writing them off. I'm rather new to hunting so I guess I don't know a lot about range, but a big range has never seemed attractive to me and I always hear people complaining about English Setters ranging too far.

Or Pointers. But many setters and pointers are bred for horseback field trials, and bred specifically to have a lot of run.

OP specifically mentioned Chukar hunting, which as I understand it is wide open boot leather hunting a dog that stays underfoot is useless.


I would not go as far as to say that an SM hunts under foot. They are not boot lickers and if one happens to be, its an owner issue and not a breed trait.

That wasn't what I meant to imply but I definitely agree that it came off that way.

I like Munsterlanders myself and have been very impressed with the two I've seen.

My point was that different hunters have different expectations with regards to optimal range.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:51 pm

daeion wrote:So far through the training I've done I would certainly not say my SM hunts underfoot, unless always begin 50-100 ft away from me is considered under foot.


Way too close for this bird hunter.

That is why we have different breeds and strains within breeds. We do not all hunt the same terrain and birds, nor do we all want the same thing from our dogs.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby ryanr » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:52 pm

daeion wrote:So far through the training I've done I would certainly not say my SM hunts underfoot, unless always begin 50-100 ft away from me is considered under foot.


Feet? That's flushing dog range, even for someone hunting ruffed grouse cover here in the East. Now 50-100 YARDS in out typical grouse cover is fine. I like my DD to typically stay 75-100 yards or so in our typical grouse cover. In the pheasant fields, now that he's steady and honest I want him covering ground out to 200yds or so. If we were out West I'd let him range further but most of our pheasant fields in the East are smaller (and more crowded sometimes) than what a western prairie pheasant hunter thinks of.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby daeion » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:07 pm

ryanr wrote:
daeion wrote:So far through the training I've done I would certainly not say my SM hunts underfoot, unless always begin 50-100 ft away from me is considered under foot.


Feet? That's flushing dog range, even for someone hunting ruffed grouse cover here in the East. Now 50-100 YARDS in out typical grouse cover is fine. I like my DD to typically stay 75-100 yards or so in our typical grouse cover. In the pheasant fields, now that he's steady and honest I want him covering ground out to 200yds or so. If we were out West I'd let him range further but most of our pheasant fields in the East are smaller (and more crowded sometimes) than what a western prairie pheasant hunter thinks of.


Sorry, meant yards.

Understanding that range differs from breed to breed and from line to line within the breed, isn't it also something you would expect to develop with age and experience? As I said, my pup is only 8 months and besides gun and bird intro she's only been to the game farm once, had done single day trainings a handful of times, and all the besides the game farm all bird work has taken place on about 20 acres, which doesn't seem like a big space for building range.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:29 pm

I was hoping you meant yards.

Yes, I think your pup may well open up more as it gains experience and maturity. Have seen some that did and some that did not. I bought a Garmin Alpha with my current pup and it allowed me to keep track of him in silence and never recall him just because I was getting nervous while he was out of sight. I think it is an excellent tool to allow a pup to develop its range, independence and search with minimal interference from the handler.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:08 am

RowdyGSP wrote:Or Pointers. But many setters and pointers are bred for horseback field trials, and bred specifically to have a lot of run.

OP specifically mentioned Chukar hunting, which as I understand it is wide open boot leather hunting a dog that stays underfoot is useless.


I duck and goose hunt about 50% of the time, so a pointer is not an option. I do like them though.[/quote]

The Sharpshooter line of GSPs are very strong and well suited for what you do. There are numerous others. You know the breed well and apparently it is your desire for a better off switch that has you studying your options in other breeds. Some lines of GWPs are very strong as are some DDs. I would talk to the VDD GNA Breed Warden in the out West Chapters to get their input on which DD Breeders are having the most success putting an above average for the breed search set of wheels on their dogs and then go get a look at them. It is mostly a given that a DD will do good work after the shot and with Waterwork, but you will have to be more selective to get the type of search and upland bird work you have enjoyed with your GSPs is my observation. I have noted several people saying good things about the search of the Vom Orion dogs over the years especially those out of Gunnar. Enough that I would get my eyes on some of those dogs and see for myself. And I would look at the GWP Breeder Alliance members' dogs. There are two very active breeders and hard core wild bird hunters including Chukars, reasonably close to you i.e. Bone Point and Three Devils. I would ask those breeders when some of their pups are running NA tests this summer and or attending training days and get out and look at em if I could. Good Luck.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby orhunter » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:20 am

Three Devils dogs will probably hunt closer than Bone Point dogs. They might be larger too and more cold resistant but there's a lot of good Bone Point duck dogs.. Three Devils should be pretty close to the Vom Orion dogs but you need to talk to Paul directly for a valid opinion. Lee Root used to post on here and I know he breeds some nice DD's. Dunno if he hunts ducks? I always tell folks who hunt a lot of ducks and still want a pointer, get a PP. Check out Cedarwoods website for photos. Bob hunts a lot of ducks. Bucko on Ifish hunts gobs of ducks and geese with his Wirehair. He sometimes hunts his dog with a couple of Labs and the Wirehair makes most the retrieves. If you want to see the results, I have a ton of photos.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:51 am

I know there are strong PPs around but there is zero need to get a PP over a well bred GWP or DD just to get good waterfowl performance. I have had excellent Vdog performance on waterfowl for 30 years from my GWPs. Dogs that would never quit looking for a downed cripple under severe weather and water conditions. Always eager for the next one. My current pup was doing 75 yard marks and one 75 yard blind retrieve hunting ducks in ND in rolling whitecap 35+ MPH winds, mid 30 temps while still shy of 8 months of age. And there is no shortage of posts showing DDs doing the same. Much larger high quality breeding pools in the GSPs, GWPs and DDs vs the PPs.
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