Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

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Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby RowdyGSP » Sun May 28, 2017 1:27 pm

I have had a serious life change lately. Broke up with the long term girlfriend and had my DK Tygh die from bloat in the same week. May be moving to Northern Idaho for a job transfer in my company soon. In the market for a dog. So tell me about the small munsterlander. How do they hunt? How are they in the house? Details please,
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby 3drahthaars » Sun May 28, 2017 3:22 pm

You need to shout out to SMAbbey...

I've seen a few, judged a couple, and have DD friends who might jump to the KLM, based on how well they hunt big country.

If you are a real hunter, know dogs and can make up your own mind, keep the SM / KLM on your radar screen.

I also think it is a breed that has less issues with bloat, too. I lost a GSP and DD to bloat, and my current DD pup's mom bloated. I don't think the KLMs are so deep chested.

Good luck,

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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby orhunter » Sun May 28, 2017 5:01 pm

Wow.... Sorry about Tygh. Wish you a smooth recovery.....but know it won't be.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby jlw034 » Mon May 29, 2017 7:23 am

That's really rough man. I always enjoyed hearing your adventures with Tygh, and he seemed like he was turning into a very nice dog.

Best of luck with your decisions.

I train with a few SMs. All have very nice temperaments. All have very high drive, and that can override their pointing. I've noticed more flagging than with other breeds. Their tracking ability has always been impressive. I've never hunted with them, but their range on training days seemed about perfect for a walking hunter.

FWIW, I've considered getting one for my next dog. Just on the fence about coat maintenance.

I'll raise a beer in Tygh's name tonight.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby orhunter » Mon May 29, 2017 9:30 am

My only experience with them is at tests and there are quite a few around. I agree with JLW, a bit weak on point, not stylish or intense but some are better than others. I think as a breed and here in the NW, they are somewhat better now than a few years ago. They would be nothing like you're used to with your Shorthairs.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby Constructeur » Mon May 29, 2017 12:03 pm

You had a solid kennel in your backyard with a very (physically) active owner, unfortunately Melissa Herz passed in a farm accident last year. If you find a Herzcoff dog anywhere, they were from her.

We've had a nice dog test in the PNW NAVHDA chapter from Robingun Kennels, Meaning I'm a shorthair guy too and like go-getters and I would own that dog.

Being that you are a young, in shape, and a very active fella, I think you might have a hard time matching a kennel to your lifestyle. Add in that the breed is a bit esoteric, and often has a decent wait list for pups...bottom line, good luck in your search.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby orhunter » Mon May 29, 2017 12:25 pm

Constructeur: Had not heard of Melissa's unfortunate demise. She'd have been my go to if I were interested in the breed. Bummer.....
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby RowdyGSP » Mon May 29, 2017 12:38 pm

Thanks for the info. That is interesting about the lack of intensity on point. The only reason I'm considering a SM is because I have heard they can be a little easier to deal with when it comes to living in the house. My shorthair, Rowdy is okay in the house but also can be pretty wound up and highly vocal. Tygh was also fairly wound up in the house.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby orhunter » Mon May 29, 2017 12:49 pm

A DD can be pretty laid back, same with Griffs, especially males. Female Griffs have more drive in the field.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby SMAbby » Mon May 29, 2017 8:13 pm

First, there are 2 clubs. The Small Munsterlander club that uses NAVHDA as their breed approval system.
The ther3 is KLM-GNA and we run JGHV tests and hold breed show ad have an extensive health data base.

KIM are very smart and if you are going to play silly wings on strings and such, they will flag. When I work my bitch on pigeons in a trap, she flags.She has figured out the game and is playing along. I hunt her on wild birds she is rock solid.Its a total generalization that they have no style or are not staunch on point.
They range well. I never cut my pups legs off until the following year. I think this has given me bigger running dogs. Even my 53cm will open up and cover ground nice.

Just like ANY other breed out there, you will run into some duds. I am pretty familiar with a current kennel that is breeding a male dog that did not make the grade hip wise in the GNA club.

They are great in the house. No kidding. maybe 5 to 10 min energy spurt when we get home or have company and then they are right back to settled in.
wish you were closer I would take you out with my dogs.

The loss of Melissa was devastating to the breed in my opinion. We spoke often and I know she had been troubled for a few years. She showed me alot and was always around with helpful ideas.
This was my "C" litter and I wanted to do something to remind me of her smile and talent. I ended up naming one of my pups "Cadence" as this was the name of one of her personal dogs.
I was in the duck blind when I got the call......:-( Good people she was.

This was a great memory. It was the SMCNA conference in 2011. I entered Max in the puppy class, but it was cancelled so we had to run with the big dogs. I was concererned as he was just a pup running against older dogs and VC dogs. Melissa told me not to worry about it and that she would be my gunnar. We ended up taking 1st place with Max and 2nd with Abby! She was a great shot among other things.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby KJ » Tue May 30, 2017 10:54 am

I have seen a number of them over the years, and hunted over a few.

All I have seen have been very friendly. My guess is that they are great family/house dogs. They are great tracking dogs, but pretty weak on pointing (both in instinct and intensity). Searches are OK for mixed hunting, but don't expect a run-and-gun chukar dog like your white shorthair. Sorry you lost him. He looked like a great dog.

If you want another power chukar dog like your Tygh, and you are heading to north Idaho, get a shorthair from Dan Hoke in Spokane. If you want a similar style hunting dog that is more personable and easier around the house, get a field bred GWP from a breeder that hunts chukars.

If you are looking for a completely different style of dog, than maybe a SM or different breed is a good match.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby SMAbby » Tue May 30, 2017 1:13 pm

Rowdy, go out and look at some Munsterlanders in person and form your own opinion.
You do very much have to watch where you get your SM. I am mot pitting one club against another, but I can for sure tell you where to stay away from.
No, I dont thi k EVERY munster out there is going to tear up the chukar like your dog did.I have a litter right now that I would say flat out just wont have the build for that kind of work. By breed description they are closer working.They are also NOT suppose to have a high tail. To everything there are exceptions.
Are their points as stylish as a setter or pointer. Not all and it does very much depend on the training.
Do they have a weak instinct to point. No, that is total breed bashing BS.

Best to go looking around yourself and form your own opinion. Dont listen to all these generalizations of the breed.

But again, they are top notch house dogs and very clean.
I can put up pointing pictures. I have a friend up north that could blow this place up with stylish points from his dogs.

Thats it from me.

Here are some I think 10 week old Munsterlander pups that have ZERO instinct or point in them. Infact, what you cant see is that we had to take and tape wire coat hangers on the off camera side to get something that looked like a point. :lol:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Some a little older

Image

Note the lack of style

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

And some video just in case you all think we freeze framed the pictures to stop the flagging.

https://youtu.be/HL5XemJWC-E

this is just on some crappy farm birds
https://youtu.be/DSBelLFapbU

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=SseDt7TPvOM

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=3o_06dq3Rsc

More puppy with no instinct
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=2FeNK4ffWH4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ_T6ZTIR4s


To be fair, I have video of flagging. Most times it is on planted birds. If we are hunting wild and I see flagging, it tells me they dont have the complete scent location or that the bird is running on us.
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Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby hicntry » Tue May 30, 2017 3:16 pm

Really nice looking dogs SM. They would have me sold if I were in the market.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby KJ » Tue May 30, 2017 3:29 pm

The loss of Melissa was devastating to the breed in my opinion. We spoke often and I know she had been troubled for a few years. She showed me alot and was always around with helpful ideas.
This was my "C" litter and I wanted to do something to remind me of her smile and talent. I ended up naming one of my pups "Cadence" as this was the name of one of her personal dogs.
I was in the duck blind when I got the call......:-( Good people she was.


I was bummed to hear about Melissa last year, too. I got to know her pretty well over the years at NAVHDA tests. Shared a few beers with her and went on a couple hunts together through a mutual friend (but was a canyon over and did not get to watch her dogs work that day, but have seen several at tests). Melissa was certainly committed to the breed and did a great job with her dogs. She also helped take a lady under her wing that got a wirehair from us, and she was a great training partner and mentor to her - and she didn't even have a dog from Melissa, nor was she paying her. That wirehair got a UT prize I at 24 months old with a first time handler, so I know of a lot of that was due to Melissa's help, which she did out of the kindness of her heart.

As far as the breed lacking pointing instinct, a very large percentage of the SMs I have watch run NA or UT scooped a few birds and got dinged in pointing. Not breed bashing, just sharing the pattern I have seen with the 20 or so that I have seen run. Almost every one also nailed the track,so they certainly have their strengths, too.
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Re: Tell me about the Small Munsterlander

Postby SMAbby » Tue May 30, 2017 8:10 pm

hicntry wrote:Really nice looking dogs SM. They would have me sold if I were in the market.


I appreciate that, thank you
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Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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