Too many DD litters? Quality?

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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby oldtimer » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:55 pm

My dogs never have chased a deer. Hogs? Not many wild hogs in ND. If you want them to run hogs, I am sure they would. They are the most cooperative I have ever seen. It depends on what the owner wants to hunt.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby carramrod » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:09 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
hicntry wrote:OT, your telling me that a DD won't run a deer that jumps up in front of them?


Nope, will stand and watch... steady to "flush"


Same here. Took a season to learn though. As for hogs, no idea. I don't do any hog hunting with him.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby HUNT 24/7 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:21 pm

hicntry wrote:I will never understand the fascination with blood tracking. Blood stinks. Hounds track game across counties with no blood trail to help them. My dogs track game for miles with no blood trail. Maybe someone here can enlighten me on why this is perceived to be such a great feat.


It's not a fascination or that the dog has a superior nose, it's that I can take my dog to a spot of blood, a piece of fur, tell him "track" & he will track that specific animal to the end & not one of the other 15 critters that have been there. It's a useful tool that has proven very effective for recovering wounded game. I use my dog to track bears mostly.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby randomnut » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:47 am

hicntry wrote:But, they will pursue and bay hogs????


Yes.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:18 am

randomnut wrote:
hicntry wrote:But, they will pursue and bay hogs????


Yes.

I've never had a chance to try. I suspect yes, as they will point coon in their dens, and wait for us to tell them to engage. I suspect they would do the same with deer if I told them to pursue.After a few seasons they've learned deer aren't something we hunt.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby Chadwick » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:01 am

hicntry wrote:I will never understand the fascination with blood tracking. Blood stinks. Hounds track game across counties with no blood trail to help them. My dogs track game for miles with no blood trail. Maybe someone here can enlighten me on why this is perceived to be such a great feat.


The thing to keep in mind is this is German style blood tracking based on how the Germans hunt deer and boar. The dog has to sit under the stand or at the blind. No deer will be picked up until after the hunt is done. The same applies to pig hunting in Germany.

Dogs running game are viewed as running the game off of the hunter's private lease.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby JONOV » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:08 am

hicntry wrote:I will never understand the fascination with blood tracking. Blood stinks. Hounds track game across counties with no blood trail to help them. My dogs track game for miles with no blood trail. Maybe someone here can enlighten me on why this is perceived to be such a great feat.


I agree. I know or know of a handful of folks that blood trail deer for other folks and advertise the service and get paid (or donations) for doing so when the call comes in. One uses a dog he got from the pound, it might be a squirrel dog of sorts or it might be a heeler mix, hard to say, but its small with perky ears. Another uses a pair of Boykin spaniels. In Wisconsin, I knew two wiener dogs that did it (I think it was a function of the leash laws there.) When I lived in MN, where it was illegal even on a leash (IIRC) my buddies would take the family Labradog "on a walk" in the area they thought the deer was. They also generally recovered deer.

Training A dog to bloodtrail a deer isn't exactly the height of hunting ability, just an added benefit, like the dog barking at things that go bump in the night. I think any hunting breeds and a few that aren't hunting breeds can do it without much training.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:40 am

hicntry wrote:But, they will pursue and bay hogs????


I have only one data point.

My Wife is a kind and gentle soul, but she grew up on a farm where her family raised enough hogs for her to develop a well informed understanding for how destructive they are, and she disdains them. So one evening while I was still at work she discovered someone's escaped hog of about 150lbs had taken up residence in the hay storage portion of our horse barn. She tried poking at it with a pitchfork and throwing rocks but it barely reacted to her provocations and when it did, it opened its mouth and popped its tushes at her. The hog had immediately taken a liking to our accommodations it seems.

An idea came to her to go to the kennel and release our GWP of that era, Hank, expecting that he would run it off. Upon finding the hog, Hank did indeed immediately engage with full vigor, a short chase ensued, punctuated with Hank grabbing the hog as it ran, the hog whirling and facing off, Hank spinning around the hog barking furiously and darting in for another bite. The moving baying chase ended up at another of our barns and the hog wisely backed it's read end up in the corner, popping what the wife described as substantial tushes as Hank bayed it furiously. Hank put enough pressure on the Hog that it eventually made a run for it and the baying, moving chase went into the woods. The wife was finally able to use the ecollar to get Hank to break off enough for her to get ahold of him and put him back into the kennel.

But the next morning the hog was spotted out in the pasture with her horse Gus, which the hog had apparently taken a shine to. I continued to go to work each day and arrive home after dark each evening, as the wife reported the hog continued to be sighted around the horse corral and pasture.

So the weekend came, she saddled up her horse and went for ride down the rural country road, and the hog came following along grunting as it trotted to catch up periodically. It was hot out and a new plan was hatched. After leading the hog several miles down the road behind her horse, she whirled Gus around and put him on a lope for home leaving the poor exhausted hog in the dust. I still attempt to guilt her about it but it falls on deaf ears.

The hog continued to be sighted and reported around the countryside for awhile but never returned to our farm which suited the Wife just fine.
Last edited by AverageGuy on Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby oldtimer » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:47 am

JONOV wrote:
hicntry wrote:I will never understand the fascination with blood tracking. Blood stinks. Hounds track game across counties with no blood trail to help them. My dogs track game for miles with no blood trail. Maybe someone here can enlighten me on why this is perceived to be such a great feat.


I agree. I know or know of a handful of folks that blood trail deer for other folks and advertise the service and get paid (or donations) for doing so when the call comes in. One uses a dog he got from the pound, it might be a squirrel dog of sorts or it might be a heeler mix, hard to say, but its small with perky ears. Another uses a pair of Boykin spaniels. In Wisconsin, I knew two wiener dogs that did it (I think it was a function of the leash laws there.) When I lived in MN, where it was illegal even on a leash (IIRC) my buddies would take the family Labradog "on a walk" in the area they thought the deer was. They also generally recovered deer.

Training A dog to bloodtrail a deer isn't exactly the height of hunting ability, just an added benefit, like the dog barking at things that go bump in the night. I think any hunting breeds and a few that aren't hunting breeds can do it without much training.


Dogs in Germany will blood trail and then sit and bark when they find the deer. That takes a bit of training.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:08 am

As a bowhunter I am thrilled to have a blood tracking dog in my kennel at all times and have for 30 years. Nothing better than your best hunting buddy turning a high anxiety situation of possibly loosing a deer, a turkey, an elk into a high five moment when the dog finds what you could not.

As to the difficulty for the dog, it does not appear to be too tough. My current 13 year old dog routinely worked very sparse 12 hour old training tracks that no human eye could see, on dead run for a qtr mile with 3 90 degree turns along the way. My current puppy worked a 250 yard track right to my buck, with zero training and no visible blood, this past Christmas eve.

Years ago I was between dogs and my GWP at the time was 15 years old and retired. I made a good shot on a doe with my bow, she whirled and ran into the head high cane in the river bottom leaving a profuse blood trail initially then zero after about 50 yards. I called up my Cousin and asked him to bring his JRT Grit over. She had zero training but hunted squirrels and claimed every deer he brought into the yard to hang. I put a bell on her and walked her on a leash to the start of the blood trail and she immediately started working down it. At the point where the blood stopped she made a hard 90 degree turn into the head high cane. Went another 50 yards and there was my doe. I shot that doe in the morning in early Oct. It was in the 30s that morning in the river bottoms but temps were climbing fast and headed into the high 70s so finding that doe quickly allowed the meat to be good, which was the whole intent at the start.

So yea it is not difficult, but it is very handy. And the dogs must be trained to ignore other game and healthy deer as they track and that does require some training.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby hicntry » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:08 am

Well, I guess that clears that up. Yes, no, maybe, maybe not, possibly, possibly not. Got it! :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: Jonov hit the nail on the head as far as blood trailing. The rest.... no ones seems to know for sure.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:43 am

Hicntry,

Sometimes you baffle me.

I have first hand recovered deer, turkey and elk with 6 different dogs over 30 years. Which is enough that I have a handle on the subject.

I said it was not difficult for the dog to perform the task, which agreed with your notion it is not difficult, but I also noted it does require training to get the dog to not be distracted by healthy animals and other game when tracking a specific wounded animal. When my puppy recovered my buck this past Dec, it was pitch dark, and I noted raccoon eyes as I drove the pickup down in the creek bottom where the track started. The puppy went over and treed the coon just moments after I unloaded him as I was still loading my pockets with drag rope, gloves, knife, bone saw to hopefully recover and dress a deer. I praised him at the tree and lead him a short distance away to the track I wanted him to work. Just an easy example of what I am talking about. In training I use a specific swiss silver bell clipped to the dogs collar so it learns an association with the task I am asking it to perform. Really helps the dog to learn what it is being asked to do and focus on it is my experience.

The tracking part is easy with the right dogs and no one teaches a dog to actually track. They either have interest in putting their head down and following the scent or they don't. We can call them back to the track and help them focus but if they show no interest at all you are dead in the water at the outset. Hence why the tracking skill is so prominent in the VJP NA test.

Sometimes you just write the headline you want to write.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby carramrod » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:59 am

hicntry wrote:Well, I guess that clears that up. Yes, no, maybe, maybe not, possibly, possibly not. Got it! :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: Jonov hit the nail on the head as far as blood trailing. The rest.... no ones seems to know for sure.


Maybe only people that have lost an animal to a poor shot can only comprehend it.

I think AG, and Missk, lined it out pretty well. Sometimes all it takes is the inability to want to listen/read.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby hicntry » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:17 pm

I didn't write any headlines AG. You may not have noticed, but, the answers given were across the board. Some said the dog would not give chase, others said it would. Maybe the difference is with the strength of the drive in the individual dogs. Really strong prey drive, the dogs are going to chase. Lesser prey drive, they won't. That would explain the broad spectrum of answers. You were right in as much as it is mostly the interest the dog has to track what he can't see more so than the quality of the nose. Most any dog can follow a blood track....but only if he wants to. That is the realty of it.
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Re: Too many DD litters? Quality?

Postby hicntry » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:22 pm

carramrod wrote:
hicntry wrote:Well, I guess that clears that up. Yes, no, maybe, maybe not, possibly, possibly not. Got it! :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: Jonov hit the nail on the head as far as blood trailing. The rest.... no ones seems to know for sure.


Maybe only people that have lost an animal to a poor shot can only comprehend it.

I think AG, and Missk, lined it out pretty well. Sometimes all it takes is the inability to want to listen/read.


Did you mean the "ability" rather than the "inability". Makes more sense that way.
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