Breed of next dog?

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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby watermen » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:04 pm

Some good posts thankyou! The first few were especially full of insight and discernment. The boy is not out of shape, He is 63 lbs. at max and weighs 58 lbs. now at the end of the season. Our conditioning program starts in August with 2 weekly morning runs and extended swimming and retrieving twice a week at a lake down the road. By the end of Sept. he had mixed in 2 trips to KS chasing chickens, he got hot it was 70-80 and we only hunted the mornings. By the middle of Oct. we started chasing birds locally 2-3 evenings a week after work and a run or extended hunt on the weekend. End of Oct. Iowa opened 80 degrees sat 70 sun. Next weekend Iowa again 70's. next weekend Ks opener (hot). Next 2 weekends back to Iowa, hot again with several afternoons when the woodcock flight was here waiting on the weekends. I live on acerage and with my neighbors encompass several hundred where we romp and run daily. Admittedly, sometimes I'm on the 4 wheeler. December first weekend back in KS for 4 days, couple of days off then next weekend cool and in NOMO on friends farm. Next weekend back in KS for 5 days, brutal cold for southern boys -10, the boy got his jewels frostbit. Break for xmas with a couple mornings duck hunting. Let the crowds have new years and next weekend back to KS. He is so out of shape I have to feed him extra fat and Salmon to keep weight on him. He just runs hot and with the exception of OK this year due to perceived crowds, last 2 years were great or the usual early trip to the Dakotas, or my grouse camp on the Peshtigo river in WI, he has missed little hunting time as we are both blessed. Like Orhunters dogs, he seems to run best at 20-40 degrees and it just seems to be hotter than that most of the year. I put him up when he starts laying down to rest, after we both cop a squat for awhile. I believe like most in the other thread a hunting dogs life is hunting. There are always trade offs, I would like to find a line of short haired breed with this dogs personality, intelligence, drive, and desire for the retrieve, which I believe makes the dog more diligent and successful on cripples.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:54 am

Yes of course a dog must be in shape to hunt hard in any temps.

But as you point out, and I learned a long time ago, dark colored dogs with thick undercoats do not handle heat as well as light colored dogs with thinner undercoats (conditioning being equal). Certain lines of GSPs and about all EPs will handle heat much better than the average GWP, PP, DD is the very observable trend. There are lines of GSPs that will meet your needs, and it might surprise you how well an EP can be trained to hunt dead and retrieve if it is a training priority from day one with a puppy. They won't rival the best tracking, never quit Vdogs, but they will recover near all dead birds and large percentage of the cripples and still be hunting when the temps are in the 70s. I had one ...

Sounds like you and your dog made the rounds and had a great season.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby TobyTx » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:59 am

Easy, a navhda GSP of DK. Am in the same boat as you and am talking to breeders. Your way up north too it looks like. Last weekend it was around 80 for the highs here!
Cabo vom Sendero vjp 69 hzp np
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby JTracyII » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:21 pm

Another option other than what I have proposed about a smallish, white, GSP from NAVHDA lines is to go with another PP. If you don't plan to breed then getting slick PP will not be too big of a deal. Just get one from a breeding of smaller parents with very tight coats. You will still have a dark colored dog though. You will likely end up with a dog that deals with heat a bit better with the personality your after with the retrieve drive of a PP. I still think the former option (a GSP) would typically do better in the heat. Plus, GSP's are often very stoic about things. This is something I very much admire in the breed. Most of the time you will have to put the breaks on them before they will on themselves to keep them from hurting themselves in the heat or otherwise.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:02 pm

Density of the undercoat followed by a dark vs light coloration are what will make the biggest differences, assuming well conditioned dogs with correct conformation. Unless a Slick also lacks a dense undercoat the mere lack of beard or longer guard hairs in the outer coat, in a liver dog with dense undercoat will not yield much improvement in ability to run long in the heat. That same issue applies to DKs which often have excellent dense undercoats. Some lines of GSPs have a lot less undercoat and a lot of white which is why they handle heat better.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby JTracyII » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:05 pm

AverageGuy wrote:Density of the undercoat followed by a dark vs light coloration are what will make the biggest differences, assuming well conditioned dogs with correct conformation. Unless a Slick also lacks a dense undercoat the mere lack of beard or longer guard hairs in the outer coat, in a liver dog with dense undercoat will not yield much improvement in ability to run long in the heat. That same issue applies to DKs which often have excellent dense undercoats. Some lines of GSPs have a lot less undercoat and a lot of white which is why they handle heat better.


Good point.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby JTracyII » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:05 pm

AverageGuy wrote:Density of the undercoat followed by a dark vs light coloration are what will make the biggest differences, assuming well conditioned dogs with correct conformation. Unless a Slick also lacks a dense undercoat the mere lack of beard or longer guard hairs in the outer coat, in a liver dog with dense undercoat will not yield much improvement in ability to run long in the heat. That same issue applies to DKs which often have excellent dense undercoats. Some lines of GSPs have a lot less undercoat and a lot of white which is why they handle heat better.


Good point.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby watermen » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:44 am

Thanks for the replies. I will pick up a BF in about 12 days to complete the team. Dogs I watched form the previous breeding were what I was looking for. Small heat tolerant and staunch pointers with good retrieving desire. And most importantly easy to train :|
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby Runningwild » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:58 am

:D
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