Breed of next dog?

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Breed of next dog?

Postby watermen » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:03 pm

I currently have a PP. He's turned out very well, took a few years, But has turned into a machine. Just got back from KS and missed the ice last night with a late night drive over the top of the storm and dropped back down. Dog was pretty tired after 2 days of hunting and he's close to as good as he is going to get other than what he can pick up on his own. Last two hunts this year he has learned to trail birds and keep lifting his head to try and get them pointed. He's bumped far fewer birds and trailed one big covey in light cover for 150 yds. yesterday before he pinned it. Starting to up his percentage of pointed roosters as well. These are wild birds and mostly public access, so they get smart this time of year, which means run. I ran labs for 38 years and this latest dog has given me the confidence to get another one as he is getting so effective. I always had a brace of labs, and I do 80-90% upland lately. His only downfall is he runs hot, Last weekend with a high of 22 he found open water in a creek and laid down in it to cool off like he does. Early season he struggles and after awhile he's more worried about breathing than hunting. I really like the breed, but am looking for the same attributes in a heat tolerant version. My first concern is temperament, ( Lab like) The next is the ability to track and point....a pheasant dog needs to track, I come by this opinion having lived in MT and SD and hunted them everyday and having seen all kinds of dogs hunt them. Ever notice wild birds almost always run linear to cover or down wind?, it's no accident. My question, what other similar short haired dogs in the versatile realm exist other than maybe vislas? I've watched a lot of GSP's run and really never seen one track well. GWP, WPG? seen some very good one's, just hairy and likely hot just as fast. It's time to start looking to get a dog in the next year or two. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:23 pm

My breed of choice is GWP, but I don't see that breed as being any different than your PP for handling heat. For upland bird focus, including pheasants, I think a GSP fits the bill you describe, the best. There are lines of GSPs with plenty of tracking skills to keep up with running birds and recover those that hit the ground wounded.

I have also seen EPs do a nice job of following running birds around and getting a point and shooting opportunity. They would get into a lower moving crouch stance and follow the moving body scent vs nose to the ground following foot scent. Very effective at handling running birds and providing shooting. Not as effective at tracking and recovering wounded birds as some other Vdog breeds.

I have found no free lunch with breeds. There will be a tradeoff somewhere with any breed you might select. Some swear there is not but a more objective eye will see what they do not. Good Luck.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby orhunter » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:47 pm

WPG is not heat tolerant. But, both the PP and the WPG have different coat types from slick to shaggy. The best is somewhere in between. I never liked to hunt my Griffs when it was over 40 out and they seem to prefer it below 20. When they can hunt on the run without panting, they're feeling just right. Individual dogs have their own tolerance levels regarding heat and cold and a lot has to do with conditioning. I think another PP or GWP would best suit you.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby 3drahthaars » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:34 pm

AverageGuy wrote:My breed of choice is GWP, but I don't see that breed as being any different than your PP for handling heat. For upland bird focus, including pheasants, I think a GSP fits the bill you describe, the best. There are lines of GSPs with plenty of tracking skills to keep up with running birds and recover those that hit the ground wounded.

I have also seen EPs do a nice job of following running birds around and getting a point and shooting opportunity. They would get into a lower moving crouch stance and follow the moving body scent vs nose to the ground following foot scent. Very effective at handling running birds and providing shooting. Not as effective at tracking and recovering wounded birds as some other Vdog breeds.

I have found no free lunch with breeds. There will be a tradeoff somewhere with any breed you might select. Some swear there is not but a more objective eye will see what they do not. Good Luck.


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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby watermen » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:04 pm

Can you shave these breeds? I was told not to shave a PP due to it growing back curly like a poodle if you do. I used to shave my labs, they loved it. Shaved them in April and the last time around first of Sept. Kept the wife happy with no piles of hair in the house. Just had to leave it long enough to keep them from getting sunburned. They stayed cool through dove season and when ducks and upland opened first of October they had hair growing back like crazy. By thanksgiving they were pretty much fully haired. My PP has perfect harsh med dense coat with the exception of feathering on his chest, back of front legs and a little line down his mid belly. It keeps him warm. I've stripped him regularly all fall. The vet shaved his facial furnishings to irrigate a puncture wound under his eye and it took 3-4 months to grow back, but looks fine now.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby Calvinator » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:46 pm

DON'T SHAVE A WIRE COATED BREED!
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby ForestDump » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:02 am

I suggest going with a Pointer next. Great hunting dogs, large gene pool, you can get a very well bred pup for a lot cheaper than what the esocentric breeds are going for.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby Chadwick » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:06 am

I've always hunted GSPs other than having one griff. The griff was great, but I like the zero coat maintenance of GSPs.

In terms of tracking, if you get a German-bred GSP, Deutsch Kurzhaar, or a GSP from kennel that runs in NAVHDA, it track as well as any of the wire-haired breeds.

However, regarding a dog's ability to handle heat, in V-dogs, I have not seen any patterns among the breeds. There are some hairy dogs that you would think could not handle the heat and they are just fine and there are shorthaired dogs that are heat intolerant.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby JASmith » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:33 am

Chadwick wrote:However, regarding a dog's ability to handle heat, in V-dogs, I have not seen any patterns among the breeds. There are some hairy dogs that you would think could not handle the heat and they are just fine and there are shorthaired dogs that are heat intolerant.


I believe a huge portion of this is due to conditioning, and have noticed that same thing.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby Jared77 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:47 am

JASmith wrote:
Chadwick wrote:However, regarding a dog's ability to handle heat, in V-dogs, I have not seen any patterns among the breeds. There are some hairy dogs that you would think could not handle the heat and they are just fine and there are shorthaired dogs that are heat intolerant.


I believe a huge portion of this is due to conditioning, and have noticed that same thing.


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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby JTracyII » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:50 pm

. Double
Last edited by JTracyII on Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby JTracyII » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:53 pm

Whatever breed you go with I think it would benefit you to look for a leaner built, possibly smaller in size breeding. Smaller dogs tend to do better in the heat from what I've seen. I also think white dogs do better in the heat. My white field trial shorthair with a brown head and a large brown spot is a good example. In the warm sun you could put your hand on her brown areas and they would be much warmer than the white spots on the same dog. I bet you would do well with a mostly white 50ish lb GSP from a NAVHDA breeding when it comes to heat. Conditioning obviously will help too.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby vman » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:07 am

You can eliminate all the problems you are experiencing, and meet all your objectives with one breed. Vizsla. :wink:
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby JASmith » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:41 am

JTracy makes a real good point also. I'd be looking at a German Shorthair, Vizsla or Weimaraner probably.
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Re: Breed of next dog?

Postby cjm » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:41 pm

I have a PP and he'll run 20 miles with me on my mountain bike in the summer, he'll run off leash on a 4-hr trail run, hunt for 8 hours 3 days in a row in MT opening week, etc... I keep him skinny as a rail and run him a lot. He certainly get's hot - and there are days in the heat of the summer that we limit training - but I have never experienced him slowing down or overheating below freezing temps. I'm sure there are individual dog differences, coat differences, line differences, terrain differences... but I agree that a lot of it has to do with conditioning. My friend has a PP from the same breeder - he gets exercise every day but he has noticeably more weight. I took him with on a trail run once and stopped at every body of water to let him cool off so I wouldn't have to carry him back to the truck!
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