Political - We've come full circle

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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:18 am

So in the last 6 months here are list of 30 something self employed persons with either a HS education or are working at a vocation for which their College degree plays no part. They are all knocking down 6 figures.

Spray Foam Operator - Truck and Trailer with compressor and sprayer. Works alone except for his prep and clean up crew working ahead and behind him.

Landscaper with a tree trimming boom truck, hydraulic lift trailer, skid loader, grass seed drill and cultipacker, ZTR mowers. He employs 6 employees besides himself.

Security Camera, Sound System, Video/Satellite, Cell Phone Booster - Works alone His Son and his wife sometime assist him.

Real Estate Land Sales - Two guys worked for Whitetail Properties learned the business and flew the Coop and started their own business doing the same. They have expanded into Mo, KS, IA and OK presently and 7 other agents. They run wide open always.

The HVAC/Electrician who wired my house this summer. He bought out a local HVAC business when it became available and added his electrician skills to the services he sells. Employs himself and 2 other guys most of the time. All the business he can handle.

Self Employed Excavators - I worked with two different ones - Both own dozers, skid loaders and back hoes. Work constantly whenever the weather allows it. They run waterlines, build ponds, terraces, building pads, clear brush for fence lines, lay drainage pipes ...

I also worked with two guys in their 40s and 50s who run their own concrete work businesses - One does foundations and the other does flat work. They are both overrun with work and employ 6 to 10 people at all times.

The Self employed Farrier who shoes my Wife's horse makes a very good living.

Then there are the Self employed Guys I have worked with in the last 6 months who make a good living but less than 6 figures, all with HS level educations:

The carpenters, the plumber, the roofers and flooring guys who worked on my house. The flooring guy actually makes about $1000 for a 12 hour day.

A friend of mine who went to mechanic vocation school and makes a great living wrenching on cars, tractors, farm equipment in the Machine Shed he built 30 yards from his house. The guy lives a farm with quail, pheasants, huge whitetails, turkeys, furbearers and waterfowl literally outside his door daily.

Painter - does it all, outside, inside, pipe corral fences - all the work he can handle - never stops.

I could go on.

We have way oversold the value of College educations. Completely undisciplined mis-management has escalated the costs to the point where it is unworkable at the majority of the schools and more than half of the degree programs. The solution is to change the model and reduce the costs. Burying those unworkable costs in our already deficit spending would be a huge mistake and do nothing to solve the unworkably high costs for most Universities. We need to encourage people to use the many less expensive job training and education options available and educating them on those alternatives/economics in the HS public school system would be a great first start on that.

And we should stop promoting College education as the end all be all. Lots of ways to make a good living. People with valuable jobs skills who hustle are doing very well is my observation. An entry level person willing to work could land work with many of those I list above and learn the trade before potentially striking out on their own if they are inclined to do so. The small business owners I list above most common complaint is they struggle to hire people who will work steady for any length of time.
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:35 am

That's one thing I think the Russian's are way ahead of us on; they pay for the necessity of the job, not the complexity. For instance, a truck driver on a dangerous route in Siberia may make the same as one of their doctors do.

In our country it is the medical system that is so out of control and causes so much misery as well as so much joy. It is great when the Medical Field can make take away our pain and suffering and help us lead a normal life. It is WRONG when they can, in one swoop, take everything from us we have worked our entire lives for. There is simply something wrong there.

We really need more equity in pay in relation to the task being performed.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:05 am

GH,

I think we are seeing your pay for value comments actually taking place in the US now. Many skilled labor jobs are paying better than college degrees with no real technical skills or knowledge attached to them.

Healthcare costs can easily be reduced if we were serious about it. Just as Education costs could be reduced. Instead both issues are being used by Politicians to pander for votes with Fictional offers of "free" stuff.
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby oldtimer » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:11 am

Can you imagine anything that is worth more than saving lives?
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:19 am

oldtimer wrote:Can you imagine anything that is worth more than saving lives?


Truly, I can not. However, prolonging a life so a hospital can make more money should be illegal. It is not right. Same with charging $60,000.00 to re-set a broken wrist. Our medical costs are out of control. I have a theory that eventually the hospitals will own everything. Now, if you need extended care, they will do it but demand your home be signed over to them first. You can live in it until you die, but it's theirs. It's just wrong.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby hicntry » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:06 pm

The medical front isn't going to get better. It will get worse because kids are being raised to be sickly. Government makes going to school mandatory, but, to go to school, the kids have to submit to all the vaccinations. Pretty much like having to have all the vaccinations to board a dog.
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:42 pm

I have a friend in Germany who says that there are a couple of important tests you take as you go through their school system, and if you don't get a passing grade you go to a trade school. If you do pass then you can go the university and the government pays for it in its entirety.
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:46 pm

On the radio the other day I listened to a scholar who was discussing economic issues of today vs. previous generations. He said that in the 70's and 80's you "pretty much had to have a plan in order to fail" - not so in today's world.
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby blue04 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:09 pm

Bruce Schwartz wrote:I have a friend in Germany who says that there are a couple of important tests you take as you go through their school system, and if you don't get a passing grade you go to a trade school. If you do pass then you can go the university and the government pays for it in its entirety.


Can't do that in the USA. Remember "no child left behind"? It more or less outlawed ability grouping kids and pretty much destroyed the concept of Ag classes and vocational school. Even though the NCLB name is no longer used, the programs they replaced it with are the same.
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby gopokes » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:00 pm

hicntry wrote:The medical front isn't going to get better. It will get worse because kids are being raised to be sickly. Government makes going to school mandatory, but, to go to school, the kids have to submit to all the vaccinations. Pretty much like having to have all the vaccinations to board a dog.


Ya know, kinda makes you miss the days when kids walked around with Polio and Measles don't it? I mean, doesn't anybody get smallpox anymore??? Dang government ruins everything good....;)

Just ribbin' ya hicntry!

Hope you all had a great TG!
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:05 am

Bruce Schwartz wrote:On the radio the other day I listened to a scholar who was discussing economic issues of today vs. previous generations. He said that in the 70's and 80's you "pretty much had to have a plan in order to fail" - not so in today's world.


Yes who doesn't yearn for the double digit inflation of the 70s and the deep recession of the early 80s.

The low interest rates currently are a gift to anyone with a sound business plan.
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby hicntry » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:43 am

gopokes wrote:
hicntry wrote:The medical front isn't going to get better. It will get worse because kids are being raised to be sickly. Government makes going to school mandatory, but, to go to school, the kids have to submit to all the vaccinations. Pretty much like having to have all the vaccinations to board a dog.


Ya know, kinda makes you miss the days when kids walked around with Polio and Measles don't it? I mean, doesn't anybody get smallpox anymore??? Dang government ruins everything good....;)

Just ribbin' ya hicntry!

Hope you all had a great TG!


Ya gotta weight if the good the governments does out weigh the bad. Immunity systems are funny things...they don't get stronger unless there is exposure. It isn't just the government anymore. I see mothers telling their kids to go get those disinfectant wipes to clean the handles of their shopping carts. Give it 50 years and look at how sickly the kids will be. Thanks Mom. Thanks dad. LOL I have had mumps, measles and a lot of things as a kid. No big deal back then.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:05 pm

Doctors are worried about that all ready HC. They say that this phobia over germs in the end will be no good. It is destroying our bodies ability to evolve our immune systems. Carry hand disinfectant and use it whenever we touch money, disinfect shopping carts, wipe hands after entering doors; who started this load of crap anyhow? Hopefully it will stop soon. Now personally, on vaccinations, I believe all children should be vaccinated BUT it sure as hell isn't Big Brother's job to tell us to do it.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby Chadwick » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:17 pm

Dishwashers are a big culprit for eliminating bacteria, which is not good. Our intestines evolved to have and need many more types of bacteria than we currently have. Some doctors are starting to use whip worms to treat ulcertive colitis and it works really well.
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Re: Political - We've come full circle

Postby STait » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:05 pm

You want to test your ammune system, spend a few days in Las Vegas and use all the handrails;-)
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