Wirehair genetics

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Wirehair genetics

Postby oldtimer » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:05 pm

I am just curious as to where the top of the line GWP dogs are getting their genetics. I do not want to name any names, but there seems to be around a dozen or so GWP breeders that are breeding outstanding dogs, in fact I am considering a dog out of several. Outstanding dogs that specialize in waterfowl and upland. My question is, are their dogs out of genetics that were seperated in the 50s when the DD and GWP split, or are there breeders that take DDs and insert them into a breeding program that emphasizes waterfowl and upland, and not the other versatile aspects. If they are doing this, I have zero problem withit, as those are the species I pursue. I cannot get over how similar they look to DDs. Are they simply benefiting from the conformation of the strict German breeding system, ONLY to specialize the breed even more. I have ZERO problem if they are doing this, as their dogs are top notch in conformation and hunting skills. Just curious if this is the case, or has form just followed function, and the dogs have evolved independently and simply resemble each other?
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:10 pm

The problem with many GWP's is that they don't have a standard they have to adhere to in order to breed. The German's are very strict about this. That's why in the GWP's you CAN get so much variation in coat, bite, and ability. There are some really fine animals being but you aren't sure if you're getting a good one or a dud. I stick with the DD's. Genetically they may be the same animal, but that's where it ends.
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby orhunter » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:18 pm

I think Wirehairs are bred more for athletic performance. I think they have a more balanced (Griff like) temperament as well.
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby oldtimer » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:53 pm

Do they get genetics from DDs?
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:24 pm

Yes.
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby JTracyII » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:48 pm

Check out the German Wirehair Alliance webpage and I bet you will find several of the breeders you have come across that seem to be tickling your fancy. This group has agreed to breed to certain standards, which are listed on its website. This group seems to be trying to apply the model that the NAPPA has employed with the PP. Find the best where ever you can and breed with a purpose of improvement in mind. Much how the DD started out, except the GWA must stay within the german wirehair/DD genetics vs any good dog one can find without regard for the breed it came from.
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:56 pm

GONEHUNTIN' wrote:The problem with many GWP's is that they don't have a standard they have to adhere to in order to breed. The German's are very strict about this. That's why in the GWP's you CAN get so much variation in coat, bite, and ability. There are some really fine animals being but you aren't sure if you're getting a good one or a dud. I stick with the DD's. Genetically they may be the same animal, but that's where it ends.


True there is variation when looking across all GWPs. Also true there are quite a few junk GWPs around.

But not at all true you don't know whether you are getting a good one or a dud. You simply research the breeding/linage and performance of the two dogs being bred. Just like any litter. There are GWP litters that are the product of dogs bred for generations for excellent performance, temperament, health, conformation and lastly coat. Buy a pup from one of those breedings and breeders and you know are getting a great prospect. That simple. http://www.bonepointkennels.com/Pedigre ... 0Tater.htm

I am a great admirer of the DDs. Don't care much for mis-information and having run GWPs for 30 years I have heard a lot of it.
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby Tcarmody » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:15 am

Go to vdd-gna.org find a DD breeder and get a dog. It makes it so you have next to nothing to worry about. The German system is way better for breeding hunting dogs. They get everything. Get a DD train and hunt.
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:47 pm

Tcarmody wrote:Go to vdd-gna.org find a DD breeder and get a dog. It makes it so you have next to nothing to worry about. The German system is way better for breeding hunting dogs. They get everything. Get a DD train and hunt.


Actually the originator of the thread already owns a DD and tee'd up some questions exploring other alternatives. Apparently he has seen some nice GWPs and is interested in learning more about them. If you follow the thread you will see the GWP Breeders Alliance mentioned. It is using the key elements of the framework you reference. If you think there is something magical in the approach such that no one else outside the VDD can have success using a breed standard, testing performance, and health screening to select and breed good dogs then there is no reason for us to speak further on the subject.
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby gwp4me2 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:18 pm

Tcarmody wrote:Go to vdd-gna.org find a DD breeder and get a dog. It makes it so you have next to nothing to worry about. The German system is way better for breeding hunting dogs. They get everything. Get a DD train and hunt.

Somebody has had A LOT of the kool-aid. There is no genetic problem or benefit that doesn't exist in both registries. Are the odds of a good hunting dog better if comparing 100% of the DD litters with 100% of the GWP litters? Yes. Would I just take a pup out of any DD litter bred? No. There are still significant differences in the focus of hunting style/game within the DD. Do you have to be more picky with the GWP? Yes. I've hunted with some great gwp's and seen DD's that I wouldn't feed and the other way around. The breeder matters more than the breed between the two.
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby oldtimer » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:58 pm

I like great dogs. My DD is the best dog I have ever owned. I believe this GWP alliance has merit. I have heard great things about some GWP kennels, and think that their concentration on waterfowl and upland really interests me. I do not hunt fur or pigs. I have high respect for the DD, but that does not mean I can't have respect for GWP breeders as well, especially since they use DD blood in their breedings. (Sometimes)
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:08 am

OldTimer,

My pup turned 9 months old 4 days ago. Here he is this morning on a wild covey of Bobwhites. He had 3 more points on singles shortly after. Lots more ahead to see how he ultimately turns out but there have been a lot of positives with the pup so far.

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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby hicntry » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:06 pm

Are the majority of pointers right or left footed. Just curious.
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby gwp4me2 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:59 pm

hicntry wrote:Are the majority of pointers right or left footed. Just curious.

Do you identify that by the foot they raise or the one they stand on? Are the ones who point on all 4's ambidextrous(sp) in a good way or lacking ability equally? SOOOO many things to consider when breeding....
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Re: Wirehair genetics

Postby hicntry » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:12 pm

The lead foot....which would be the raised one.
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