When to spay a dog

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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby Densa44 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:09 am

Calvin is right. An owner spayed one of our pups before the first cycle and the poor little thing damaged both ACLs, dog has been layed up for months and it cost about $8,000. That was Canadian dollars so it could be worse in the USA.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:36 am

How old was that dog when it tore the ACL'S? Was any conditioning work done with them? What I do with mine is at a little over a year I start muscling up the legs. They pull logging chain in harness, do a lot of swimming behind my Kayak, and run miles alongside a bike. I have never had a problem with an ACL. When I was training I worked with a ton of trial retrievers and only saw an ACL issue with one. Most were spayed to run in trials.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby Shannon » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:33 pm

My dog was in great shape. Ran daily, swam a bunch a couple of times a week, and hunted extensively during the season. Trained a ton in the off season until she blew out her first ACL. She could run in front of the four wheeler at 15 MPH without getting winded for an hour. I use to call her the Kenyan because I just couldn't wear her out. You've been lucky so far if you are spaying at 6 months and haven't had a problem. I hope it keeps working out for you. The vet that did my dogs surgeries is based out of Sun Valley Idaho. He had done over 10,000 of the surgeries if I remember correctly. The day we had her in on the last surgery his entire day was booked with out of state trial dogs that were both lab and pointers. Labs were the bulk of his business for CCL surgeries though.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby fuzznut » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:39 am

Agree with waiting till fully matured. There are a lot of new studies showing correlations between early spay/neutering with serious health issues.

Google it... tons of info out there to read, then you will have to choose.

This get 'em fixed as babies was started by the AR movement ....everyone bought into it and we are now finding out it isn't great advice.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby Dakotazeb » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:13 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:My last two Brittanys have been females. I spayed the first one after her first heat cycle (10-12 months) and my current female prior to here first cycle (approx. 9 months). The first female lived a healthly life to age 12. My current female is now 8 and the picture of health. I never had any issues of any kind related to them being spayed.


I might have to eat my words since I posted this in August. My 8 year old female Brittany that I said was the picture of health is now gone due to a mass on her spine that was invading her vertebrae. The University of Minnesota Veterinary Medical Center diagnosed it as hemangiosarcoma. Now after reading more about spaying I've read in more than one article that spaying more than doubles the risk of a dog developing hemangiosarcoma. Then I also read that spaying can increase the risk of Cushings Disease. That happens to be what the female in put down a year and a half ago at age 12 had. So what's the odds of me losing both dogs within a year and a half to diseases that may be related back to them being spayed? The odds were probably extremely low but I ended up being the unlucky one. So now I'm planning to get another female Brittany and the debate to spay or not to spay becomes real. There is so much conflicting information on the web I'm not sure what to think. I will probably end up having this new female spayed and hope I dodge a bullet. But if I do have her spayed I will probably wait until about age 2. Too bad there hasn't been more scientific studies done on this issue.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby Runningwild » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:05 am

I would wait until after 2 years until the dog is fully developed. Or have a tubal ligation that way she can keep the rest of the function of the ovaries but can't get pregnant.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am

Our vets here all agree on before the first cycle which is how ive always done it. Just had the new pup spayed st 7 months. Hate putting up with the mess in the house.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am

Our vets here all agree on before the first cycle which is how ive always done it. Just had the new pup spayed st 7 months. Hate putting up with the mess in the house.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby Kiger2 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:59 pm

UC Davis has done a lot of studys on this issue. You can go do the research and read them.

In essence they are finding that early spay and neuter increase the risk of joint problems, ccl, HD. Also found an increase in the occurrence of cancer. Dogs that have been spay/neutered tend to be taller (same result with llamas that are castrated early before growth plates close.

shannon mentioned the vet in Idaho. He does do a bunch of CCL's and apparently he is pretty good at it. A friend had his dog up there last year. He was told that the bulk of Ccl injuries are due to two things. Working in mud and playing rough with other dogs.

I know longer spay our females. I quit doing it because of the metabolism change that results in weight issues. The are in the house and we deal with it.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby Coveyrise64 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:22 pm

Would any of this research include data from a Laparoscopic Spay where only the ovaries are removed?

cr

Misskiwi67 wrote:More and more studies are coming out that show benefits to leaving females intact for an undetermined period of time. This does not change the risk of mammary cancer and pyometra we have known about for years.

As we continue to study these effects, the current "happy medium" is to allow one heat cycle, during which the risk of mammary cancer increases only slightly, and slight decreases in risks of other cancers and joint disease.

A recent study in Rottweilers showed a 4 year increase in lifespan of dogs spayed after 6 years of age. It is unknown at this time if this will dramatically change recommendations in the future as that particular study was done on a very limited population.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby jlw034 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:43 pm

I appreciate the discussion on this. Pup is 11 months old now, and thinking hard about when we want to spay. My vet is pretty set that before 1 year of age is the best. Unfortunately I spend too much time on the internet reading other opinions.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby orhunter » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:16 pm

You gotta consider most Vets are not overly concerned with your dog's health and don't often encounter working dogs and the stresses put on their bodies. Their advice is the result of what they were taught in school and not real world dog issues. A Vet thinking outside the box for the better good of your dog (and you) is the Vet you want to use. Besides, they can't make money off a healthy dog unless they offer services such as spay/neuter to supplement their income.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby jlw034 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:49 pm

orhunter wrote:You gotta consider most Vets are not overly concerned with your dog's health and don't often encounter working dogs and the stresses put on their bodies. Their advice is the result of what they were taught in school and not real world dog issues. A Vet thinking outside the box for the better good of your dog (and you) is the Vet you want to use. Besides, they can't make money off a healthy dog unless they offer services such as spay/neuter to supplement their income.


In any case other than mine, I would say you are right. But my vet is my father in law. He hunts as much or more than I do. And he does everything for cost. But he's also been doing it for 35 years, so he's a bit old school.
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Re: When to spay a dog

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:01 pm

orhunter wrote: Besides, they can't make money off a healthy dog unless they offer services such as spay/neuter to supplement their income.


Your funny. Ever wonder why a spay is $250 and a C-section is $900-1200? Basically the same surgery, even easier when the owner wants to breed again and you leave the uterus alone. Spay and neuter are discounted to cost because they are "shopped" and because most vets feel spay/neuter young has a direct effect on overpopulation (it doesn't, but that's what we are taught be the spay/neuter groups).
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