Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Duckdog17 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:59 am

I switched to Advantix II this year for the simple fact that I wanted a preventative along with a "killer". It is a little greasy as MissK mentioned, but if you put it on in the evening, then kennel the dogs that night, it's all pretty well absorbed or dried by morning.

I've been running my DD in tick infested timber every day since his first dose last weekend. He has had one tick.
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Duckdog17 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:53 pm

Found 3 more on him today.
Stuck,...but dead. I hate ticks!!!
I think I'm going to try some of that Adams Flea and Tick spray too.
I think you can use it twice a month, if I remember right.
Plenty of good stuff out there that'll kill 'em,...
I really want to find a good deterrent!
I don't like the collar or tag idea just for the simple fact that Penny, (JRT) licks
EVERYTHING!!! Her motto is "Lick first, ask questions later" ;)
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Duckdog17 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:33 pm

Ok...after doing a little research,...I think I'm going old school!
Pyrethrin. I'm pretty sure it's the chemical found in the old school "dips" we used to use before all this once a month stuff came out.
And, as it turns out,...from what I'm reading,...it's one of the safest.
So, Adams makes a dip concentrate and pyrethrin is the chemical.
I think I'll mix some up and make my own spray the apply before a romp in the woods
The dogs usually get a good hosing off after a romp in the woods anyways.

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/pyrethrins.pdf

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethrin
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Steve Anker » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:57 am

ADVANTIX II.....large dog

Just applied the stuff......found a dead tick on one of the houndzz.

Good Deal.
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:41 am

Duckdog17 wrote:Ok...after doing a little research,...I think I'm going old school!
Pyrethrin. I'm pretty sure it's the chemical found in the old school "dips" we used to use before all this once a month stuff came out.
And, as it turns out,...from what I'm reading,...it's one of the safest.
So, Adams makes a dip concentrate and pyrethrin is the chemical.
I think I'll mix some up and make my own spray the apply before a romp in the woods
The dogs usually get a good hosing off after a romp in the woods anyways.

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/pyrethrins.pdf

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethrin


Advantix II has pyrethrin in it - it will be your best bet as far as safety goes.
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Steve Anker » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:09 am

YEP.....
it's currently on my favveeez list......
been usin' it since it's inception.
Good SHTUFFF....
Advantix II
not the ONE but da twoooski.
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Duckdog17 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:58 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:
Duckdog17 wrote:Ok...after doing a little research,...I think I'm going old school!
Pyrethrin. I'm pretty sure it's the chemical found in the old school "dips" we used to use before all this once a month stuff came out.
And, as it turns out,...from what I'm reading,...it's one of the safest.
So, Adams makes a dip concentrate and pyrethrin is the chemical.
I think I'll mix some up and make my own spray the apply before a romp in the woods
The dogs usually get a good hosing off after a romp in the woods anyways.

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/pyrethrins.pdf

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethrin


Advantix II has pyrethrin in it - it will be your best bet as far as safety goes.


I think you're wrong. Read the label, Advantix II has permethrin in it. Permethrin and pyrethrin are not the same.
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:19 pm

Duckdog17 wrote:
I think you're wrong. Read the label, Advantix II has permethrin in it. Permethrin and pyrethrin are not the same.


Permethrin is a synthetic form of pyrethrin. They are the same class of drug and very similar. Pyrethrins as a class are highly toxic at high doses, but Advantix has been proven over time to be safe and effective when used appropriately. This is the advantage of choosing a widely used product that has been around for a while over the hundreds of other products available.
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Duckdog17 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:03 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
Duckdog17 wrote:
I think you're wrong. Read the label, Advantix II has permethrin in it. Permethrin and pyrethrin are not the same.


Permethrin is a synthetic form of pyrethrin. They are the same class of drug and very similar. Pyrethrins as a class are highly toxic at high doses, but Advantix has been proven over time to be safe and effective when used appropriately. This is the advantage of choosing a widely used product that has been around for a while over the hundreds of other products available.


Yes...and no. Permethrin is highly toxic, while pyrethrin is a LOT safer and not near as toxic at the same level. Pyrethrin is basically the pure form of ground chrysanthemum.
Whether they're in the same class...I don't know. But studies have proven that pyrmethrin is much safer to mammals than permethrin.

From a few of the links I posted. You really should read them!

Pyrethroids are manufactured chemicals that are very similar in structure to the pyrethrins, but are often more toxic to insects, as well as to mammals, and last longer in the environment than pyrethrins. More than 1,000 synthetic pyrethroids have been developed, but less than a dozen of them are currently used in the United States. Pyrethrins and pyrethroids are often combined commercially with other chemicals called synergists, which enhance the insecticidal activity of the pyrethrins and pyrethroids. The synergists prevent some enzymes from breaking down the pyrethrins and pyrethroids, thus increasing their toxicity.
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby ryanr » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:38 pm

:popcorn:
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:42 pm

Duckdog17 wrote:From a few of the links I posted. You really should read them!



I'm a veterinarian - I have access to much better information than wikipedia. Thanks though!!
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Duckdog17 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:33 pm

Well, if you're going to "go there"...
And, since you're a veterinarian, you shouldn't post falsehoods like...
Advantix II has pyrethrin in it - it will be your best bet as far as safety goes.

That is just flat WRONG! And, you know it!!

That's like saying "cough syrup with codeine has heroin in it!!"
Because they're in the same class?
There are other links besides Wikipedia, of which I agree is not the best reference for scientific proof of anything, but it does give one some reading material.

Since you're a veterinarian, and you have access to all the top secret veterinarian files that the rest of us mere mortals can't get to...
I challenge you to post one single reference to the inclusion of pyrethrin in Advantix II...
Or, how about a study that shows pyrethrin is just as toxic as permethrin.

Or would you rather just stand by your original statements, and back it up with
"because I'm a veterinarian"?
Dang, you're a stubborn woman!!!
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Duckdog17 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:12 pm

http://www.livingwithbugs.com/permethrin_pyrethrum.html

http://www.hydrofun.net/pdf/permethrin-pyrenthum.pdf
No. Pyrethrum is a relatively low toxicity natural insecticide and, since it breaks down quickly, generally has low environmental impact as well. For these reasons it enjoys a reputation of being "safe". Pyrethroid insecticides, on the other hand, are generally more toxic and more environmentally persistent -- i.e. not as "safe". Unfortunately, some marketers continue to claim that pyrethroid insecticides are "made from chrysanthmum flowers" implying that they are "natural and safe". These claims are false, and if done intentionally unethical.

Huh...you can even use pyrethrin on cats because it's not as toxic.
Who knew?
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:42 pm

Duckdog17 wrote:http://www.livingwithbugs.com/permethrin_pyrethrum.html

http://www.hydrofun.net/pdf/permethrin-pyrenthum.pdf
No. Pyrethrum is a relatively low toxicity natural insecticide and, since it breaks down quickly, generally has low environmental impact as well. For these reasons it enjoys a reputation of being "safe". Pyrethroid insecticides, on the other hand, are generally more toxic and more environmentally persistent -- i.e. not as "safe". Unfortunately, some marketers continue to claim that pyrethroid insecticides are "made from chrysanthmum flowers" implying that they are "natural and safe". These claims are false, and if done intentionally unethical.

Huh...you can even use pyrethrin on cats because it's not as toxic.
Who knew?
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Duckdog- if you want to get down the biochemical details, you would be correct. However there is a lot more that should be taken into account when choosing a pesticide to apply to your pet. Toxicity is more than how "toxic" a chemical is, but also a matter of concentration, carrier, and appropriate application. The product you have selected is a dip concentrate. It has to be diluted (correctly to be as safe as label states) and applied as often as weekly in order to be effective. I only suggested Advantix as an alternative because I have seen very few people who were not happy with it, although topical reactions seem more common than with frontline/advantage.

The newer chemicals, while more potent (and yes, toxic to cats), are safe and effective when used according to label instructions in dogs. They are more likely to be used appropriately, and therefore more effective. The product I recommended over the product you chose, has an identical mechanism of action, will produce similar results (unless your dog sleeps with cats), lasts longer, and is more likely to be applied appropriately due to length of action and ease of use. Since its more likely to be used appropriately, you are more likely to see results. Your pet will be better protected from fleas, ticks, and the diseases they carry, and most people would have been happier with this option.

This is clearly not the case for you. You are welcome to use whichever product you choose based on your research. I'm not selling anything here, it was an honest opinion/recommendation.
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Re: Doggy KEVLAR? What's your TICK preventitive?

Postby Chadwick » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:47 pm

I just bought NexGard. We'll see if it is all its cracked up to be.
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