Are Versatile breeds welcome at HRC events?

HRC, NAHRA, etc

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Are Versatile breeds welcome at HRC events?

Postby Waffenmeister » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:51 pm

Hello,

I have a German Wirehaired Pointer pup who is registered with NAVHDA.
Because duck hunting is my favorite, I was thinking of also registering her with UKC to participate in HRC events. Do others do this? Good idea? Thanks for any response.
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Postby ME » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:07 pm

You dog can run in any HRC test at the three lower levels nomatter where your dog is registered.

If you want to keep the points that you earn to gain titles you need to have the dog UKC registered. I don't know if they accept NAVHDA as a legitimate registry.

If you hunt ducks with your dog you will have fun at the test and if you make it to the finished level you will have a much better duck dog...

BTW if you get one of the DVD's of the O5' Spring Grand you will have a good Idea of how the tests work..
Last edited by ME on Sun May 14, 2006 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mwimmer » Tue May 09, 2006 8:03 am

Waffenmeister,

It's a great idea. Your GWP, or other pure bred hunting breed, is welcome at HRC events.

Register with UKC is you want to keep the points your dog earns towards titles, etc.

Great people. It's a ton of fun, particularly if you really enjoy waterfowl hunting.


Good Luck
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Postby Bruce Schwartz » Wed May 10, 2006 11:06 am

ME,

My browser can't display the link you posted. Do you know another way to get at the DVD? Thanks.

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Postby bill10979 » Wed May 10, 2006 12:51 pm

Bruce, I think if you go to "MEs" www site you will see them for sale.
I wish I had bought one as Im going into this test blind!
Worst case, I may spectate this Sunday and run next weekend.

The land blinds to 100yds have me a little worried. Ive only worked to 60-70 yards. I can Back her but I think you only get 1 handle. Might need a week more to train.
Bruce, those are the most gorgeous photos of scenery and dog Ive seen in a long while. What a beautiful place to hunt. Dog is good looking too. Are you sure its not a DD/GWP???!!!!!
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Postby Bruce Schwartz » Wed May 10, 2006 4:30 pm

Hey, thanks. Only get one handle? Yikes! Maybe that's one handle on a mark? I went to ME's website a few weeks ago and was loving his dog and tried to download a UT duck search it had done but my computer choked on the data so I never got to see it. Splendid animal though - almost as cute as my bootlicker. I appreciate your comments regarding the photos.
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Postby Rick Hall » Wed May 10, 2006 7:38 pm

You can handle up a storm on the blinds - as long as Pup is responding appropriately. More than one handle on the marks, however, will likely cost a ribbon.
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Postby bill10979 » Thu May 11, 2006 11:01 am

Thanks Rick for the response.
I am very new to these events, havent even joined a club yet, but am doing so this weekend. Ran a little mock test today and she broke on shot once, so Im working on steadying her up.
Will spectate this weekend and run one thats closeby on next weekend, that way I got no excuses! Also learn the rules, I know gun safety is huge-your dog can be flawless but if youre not, your dog can fail.
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Postby Rick Hall » Thu May 11, 2006 4:09 pm

Bill, I see I could have done a better job of clarifying handling allowances. I should have said, "Handling on more than one mark will likely fail you." Because you can handle more than once on that one mark. In fact, once you start to handle on a mark, the judges will want you to handle all the way to the bird, rather than just to its general area.

(Way I had it written could be read as meaning that you only got to try one cast on a mark.)

Also, I have it in mind that you're looking at Seasoned, and Seasoned blinds are only 40yds, not 100. And Seasoned judges are pretty lienient on handling. (I have heard some judges apply a 50/50 rule of thumb on handling allowing up to 50% whistle and/or cast refusals, as long as Pup is handled to the bird and doesn't just stumble onto it.) To my mind, Seasoned is mostly a steadiness test.
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Postby bill10979 » Sun May 14, 2006 8:04 am

Well we finished pretty early yesterday and I had some time to actually watch a finished and seasoned test close up. Lots of handling was evidenced which is fine, though I usually dont handle much unless its a real poor line. Im glad I watched one.

The Finished didnt look too tough until I saw the blind! After 3 marks-from 40-70 yards(wind blew some into cover)the dog was sent in the same direction way past the 1st mark to opposite bank(bout 100-yds.) Then given another "Back" to go up on the bank into ground cover another 10 yards up a small hill. There was a diversion on the way back. Its a challenging test, I hope we get to run it! A dog like this will be very useful in a blind and most any hunt situation where ducks are concerned.

For our started test, there were 4 marks-2 land, 2 water. The land was tough IMO especially for young dogs. It was 70yards down and up a small ravine. Through alot of dogs off their line. I only have flat ground to practice but she aced it anyway thankfully. 2nd down a sloping hill 40 yards into knee high cover. Last week was cakewalk compared to this. Water was easy-a few decoys to navigate. Last week-my luck-a few geese decided to land on our test site just as we began to run. Luckily we got em off there. Murphys law. Anyway,we are 10 points this. As some know, we now train for Finished as we run seasoned so it will be fun.
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Postby ME » Sun May 14, 2006 11:37 pm

Bruce I fixed the link I had one to many c's in it.


Good luck bill HRC tests are fun if you know what your dog is going to do but if you are hoping things will go well then you will be making a donation..

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Postby bill10979 » Mon May 15, 2006 9:49 am

"HRC tests are fun if you know what your dog is going to do "

Thats where it gets interesting!! I know her very well and shes a helluva dog, but test time-other excited dogs, ducks, whistles, people, guns, sometimes you dont know. Overall she handles well and is very cooperative(I think!). Up to now I havent had to handle a great deal, as I see in the tests. Saw a dog handled about 7x to a 40 yd. blind. Kind of surprised me, but seems that the judges like this and once you start to handle you do so all the way to the bird.

Thanks for the well wishes. In some way, ME has inspired me. I kind of got the bug from visiting this site. I got real lucky in that my dogs pedigree has a few HRC titled dogs. I never knew this when I bought her.

The only problem, per se, I have with this test system is that there is never any work/emphasis on cripples. Its more of a handling/obedience drill and where alot of training definately comes into play. Some dogs seem very robotic. As you know, there are many HRCH dogs-hundreds probably. I really think there would be a weeding out process if ducks were marked and dragged quite a ways out of sight etc to resemble a cripple, with no handling. That to me is a much more realistic "Hunt" test. This test assumes all your ducks hit the water belly up. We all know thats not the case. Just my thoughts. Still though, I see the beauty of this and usefulness to a hunter. Its the best I know of.
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Postby Rick Hall » Mon May 15, 2006 6:34 pm

Doubt tracking a dragged mark would be telling enough to justify the time and trouble it would take to present such a test fairly, but I've long bemoaned the logistical (and likely attitudinal) constraints precluding the addition of a NAVHDA-like search in hunting retriever testing. Would think that the most telling aptitude test NAVHDA offers.
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Postby bill10979 » Mon May 15, 2006 8:23 pm

Rick you make a decent point. But I think logistically if theres time to do a triple mark, a blind and a diversion, certainly a dragged cripple could be tested as well. I view a dog as an asset to aid in retreiving but also to assist and to be useful as a conservationist and an ethical tool, to that end.
We've worked 2/days now since Sunday and I feel like Im training a robot, but thats the test. So be it. Thats my only gripe, otherwise as I said before HRC is a great venue for training and testing. There are some very good dogs, just there are mediocre and poor dogs as well IMO.
Not 100% sure about Navhda but the VDD has test components that test a dogs search both with and without a live or a dead duck. It test the dogs independence in searching likely cover for a cripple but a duck isnt always used, depending on the specific test. In the intermediate test(breed test) there is a search behind a duck to simulate a cripple. Utility there is not. It is a good and very useful test. I thought that test was to independent and not enough handling. Guess Im just tough to please!!
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Postby Rick Hall » Mon May 15, 2006 9:01 pm

I'm thinking one would have to keep changing the location of a drag to prevent either multiple scent trails or a scent highway to the dragged mark. And even if you manage to make it fair to the whole flight of dogs, you've learned nothing more than that Pup will do something quite easy to teach.

In a search test it really wouldn't make a bit of difference whether there was a bird out there, as the test would be of whether Pup had the hunt in him to stay hard at it for several minutes on the promise of a bird to recover. But to be meaningful, it would have to eat up a lot more time than could readily be afforded a 30 dog field, while still covering other requisits.

None of which matters, since it ain't gonna happen.
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