MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

AKC, CKC, KC, ANKC, UKC, ENZI, etc. testing.

Moderator: Moderator Pack

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby crackerd » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:37 am

Which sporting dog classification are you proposing the MHX for? Pointers? Retrievers? Spaniels?

If the senior field rep you suggested it to was Bill Speck, you probably gave him a right good chuckle. Why? Well, spaniels already have the MHX option, but the test has been run all of about twice in five years. Moreover, because the breed parent clubs have to vote in favor of it before their breeds are eligible, the MHX was limited at last report to springers--which already have field trials insofar as pursuing excellence for and advancement of their breed.

More chuckle per your original list of "competitive" criteria: MH retriever tests already have MHX-plus levels of testing--triple marks, poison bird blinds, out-of-order flyers, honor on shot flyer, etc. The "annual" MHX, such as it is, is known as the Master National and the AKC sanctions it but not the title suffix "MHX" after the registered name of a dog that passes it. A Long Islander with whom you may be familiar, Mr. Bunting, is judging it this year.

And as to any MHX test for pointers--including water work and multiple retrieves--why, if Speck, or Chuck Kimbrel, heard this, they must've been needing myocardial infarction assistance from the rib puncture wounds you inadvertently caused them...

But Steve, given your propensity for all kinds of testing and trials, you must know that there's a new Hunting Retriever Club (HRC) on Long Island that allows all gundog breeds to participate--should you so desire. Or should you have so desired, as their first hunt test went down last month, with one of the club's movers in going forward Sue Carpenter.

MG
User avatar
crackerd
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:10 pm

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby Steve Anker » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:35 am

But Steve, given your propensity for all kinds of testing and trials, you must know that there's a new Hunting Retriever Club (HRC) on Long Island that allows all gundog breeds to participate--should you so desire. Or should you have so desired, as their first hunt test went down last month, with one of the club's movers in going forward Sue Carpenter.



Crackerd-

Yessir, got the word for that event,
I was away Field Trialing that weekend whooping up on the folks of the NE Circuit, Yep would haved liked to run a dog or two in that as well. Sue sent me all the info, including the rules and regs.

Pointing Breeds, the other white meat.... those flash-frozen stiff dogs that can and will do more than just point up a bird.

Not to start another testing club, but to expand on what is already exists is my thinking, with clubs already offering titles and certifications.
No it wasn't Speck or Aldrich to whom I spoke, it was Gary Sadler.
Steve "HOSS" Anker
ANKER OUTFITTERS
A-TEAM Gun Dog Training
FEATHER TERROR KENNELS

"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
User avatar
Steve Anker
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3443
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 7:20 pm
Location: The Ponderosa- Carlisle, New York

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby bwjohn » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:17 pm

I know that this would be a departure from what the AKC does, but I would like to see a Versatile breed test that included some of things that have been mentioned (ie water retrieves, maybe duck), but also a fur tracking. The continental breeds, for the most part were breed for it, I think that it should be apart of their testing.

Also, this will probably ruffle a lot of feathers, but most continental breeds were also breed for foot hunting dogs and not meant to be as big running dogs as the EP or ES. So, should they be held to the standard that the E dogs are? I am all for a dog ranging, working hard and being bold, but at some point you really begin to change the breed.

So, I am for a Versatile breed hunting classification, whether that fits into the MHX I do not know. I know what NAVDHA is and what they do, but they do not include fur in their test. I am not for sure but I think the German System does, but it is not widespread in the US.

Brandon
User avatar
bwjohn
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:48 pm
Location: Provo, Ut

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby ccccrnr » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:59 pm

bjwood,

I was at the retriever AKC hunt test for the st louis golden retriever club this weekend.

The question of people with pointing labs being allowed to test both retrieving and pointing hunt test was brought up with the AKC representative that was there (I've forgot the name right now)

He had a sharp answer of "Anyone who wants a pointing dog should get a pointer"

So I'd guess an al together versatile test is out,

But on a twist of the versatile dogs maybe being saved by mutts.

The AKC is regrestering all dogs (pure, mixed, and what have you) starting October 1, 2009 (AKC needs $)
then in April 10, 2010 they will be able to test in anything except conformation.
I'm hoping that once a few pointer/retriever mixed registered dogs choose to test both pointing test and retriever test, the AKC will see the testing dollar$ and both test would be opened up to the whole sporting group as an option.
ccccrnr
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby dualgwp » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:53 pm

cccccr... you might want to do some reading on the mixed breed program. http://images.akc.org/pdf/MixedBreedProgramDetails.pdf
Mixed breeds will only be able to compete in AKC Agility, Rally, and Obedience events. That's it. No field trials, no hunt test, just what they call "companion events". Actually, mixed breeds, or breeds without known parentage could always compete in these events, if they resembled a registered breed. They received an ILP number and could participate in obedience and agility. They must be spayed or nuetered.

Is it a smart move on AKC's part? Time will tell.
User avatar
dualgwp
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 7:19 am
Location: New Hope, PA

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby ccccrnr » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:08 pm

I 1st heard of the mixed breed AKC regristeration from a woman that has husky's about a month or more ago, and I think she had been a pulling and show judge.
It was her understanding that over time all events except confmation would be opened for the mixed breeds, as it is expected many mixed breed owners will want to do the AKC tracking test or AKC lure coursing as an outlet for their dogs.
dualgwp wrote: Time will tell.

you got that right :D
ccccrnr
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby crackerd » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:19 pm

ccccrnr wrote:I 1st heard of the mixed breed AKC regristeration from a woman that has husky's about a month or more ago, and I think she had been a pulling and show judge.
It was her understanding that over time all events except confmation would be opened for the mixed breeds, as it is expected many mixed breed owners will want to do the AKC tracking test or AKC lure coursing as an outlet for their dogs.
dualgwp wrote: Time will tell.


Time'll tell, alright--if you've got time till the next millennium and the one after that. Otherwise, never will mixed breeds be allowed into field events. The AKC may stoop to many things--like giving airedales eligibility for "spaniel" hunt tests to prop up a dying program--but if it ever tried to bring mixed breeds into the field trials it sanctions, especially for retrievers and spaniels, the trials would simply tell the AKC to take its auspices and shove it. Imagine, even though AKC is a second- or third-tier level of pointing dog FTs, that the pointer people would do same, and go kit and kaboodle to AF. And then AKC would have its mixed breed field trials or no trials a'tall.

MG
User avatar
crackerd
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:10 pm

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby Steve Anker » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:21 am

- At my friendly NAVHDA Chapters Training Clinic this past weekend, the talk under the shade tree was all about the possibility of an additional AKC level of hunt testing beyond the current ceiling of MH. I was pleasantly surprised to hear folks chit chatting about how neat they thought this would be. I actually walked into the conversation after some waterwork, as I returned to the truck to put up my GSP. The idea was well received and folks were all in favor of continued progressive achievement in Hunt Testing Levels. The group being comprised of serious accomplished veteran NAVHDA/AKC folks.

Lets watch this build.....boil and bubble.....kick it around with your "A-TEAM"........
Steve "HOSS" Anker
ANKER OUTFITTERS
A-TEAM Gun Dog Training
FEATHER TERROR KENNELS

"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
User avatar
Steve Anker
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3443
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 7:20 pm
Location: The Ponderosa- Carlisle, New York

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby larue » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:32 am

The next challenge is already there,once you get you mh,why not run in walking field trials?
Broke dogs win trials,and give your dog a title in front of his name.
I know of several dogs and people who have ran hunt tests and then done very well in trials.
larue
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 4:49 pm
Location: wis

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby DrahtsundBraats » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:34 pm

Running field trials is just more bird work....I understood raising the bar as wanting to show more versatility as far as retrieving and water work. Maybe I misunderstood.
DrahtsundBraats
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3917
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:41 am

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby Steve Anker » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:08 am

I thnk that having a higher level for MH is an excellent idea! MH test in my opinion has way too many "show" people that are judging, I know of many that do not even hunt!


Sure! That could be addressed as well, maybe have the Judges BE accomplished Senior HT folks. Folks well rounded in all aspects of dog testing, training, and trialing.

You know, the AKC puts the burden of setting the quality of Judges on the CLUBs. They specifically state to perspective event secretarys and chairman, to find able, well rounded, qualified individuals to Judge their events, it's the Clubs decision.
Added most recently is the requirement to have Q's in the level you are judging, not bad, it's a start.
Steve "HOSS" Anker
ANKER OUTFITTERS
A-TEAM Gun Dog Training
FEATHER TERROR KENNELS

"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
User avatar
Steve Anker
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3443
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 7:20 pm
Location: The Ponderosa- Carlisle, New York

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby lbgundogs » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:40 pm

Before everyone gets into an uproar AKC has set into effect some changes to the criteria to become and remain a Judge of field events. First off currently to become a judge you have to go throught an apprenticeship much like the NAVHDA model. During that time you have to make two ride alongs with vetran judges, take and pass the written test, and pass 3 qualifing test at the level to be judged or higher prior to judging. Judges approved before January, 2008 must recertify by taking the written exam or attending a seminar every five years. Current judges will soon along with retaking the test, have to qualify a dog at the level to be judged every five years to continue judging. The full list of requirements can be found below.

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/events/hunting_ ... tieria.pdf

In our area we dont have to many problems with judges. If your a terrible judge, your not asked to come back. The problem we have run into is judges interpreting the rules diffrently, ignorance to the rule book additions and changes, and an all out bad "high on the horse' attitude. Like others I have seen some terrible rulings, and I have seen some excellent calls. For the most part, the judges I have run into give the dog the benifit of the doubt, and will try to make an honest and fair judgement. There are just to many judges looking for reasons to fail a dog, instead of pass it (and in some cases their not looking at all). A great judge, Gene Nelson once told me that the way he looks at it, every dogs starts the brace with straight tens. Throughout the course is when the deductions are noted, and after the run is completed he gives an honest evaluation in accordance with the standard. If the dog did it, it gets a 4-5. If the dog did it well, it gets a 6-10. If the dog didn't meet the standard, it gets a 0-4 accordingly, depending on how much he wants to hurt your feelings! No really, to many people dont take a good look at their score cards. From that sheet you can make a baseline for improvement, and hopefully succeed the next go round.
L.B.
User avatar
lbgundogs
Seasoned
Seasoned
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:15 am

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby Steve Anker » Mon May 17, 2010 2:25 pm

A word on Hunt Test Judging....from the seat of the Judge...between him/her and the saddle sores.

A statement that is etched in my head when we Judge Hunt Tests, mostly at the top level izz:

A basic question: Would you like to hunt over this dog? Rings fairly true for every dog we spend the 30 minutes looking over. Would ya? Well, we're not asking if the dog is gonna set the field on fire, just IZZ the dog a dog you would like to spend a lazy afternoon shooting birds over? Someone, somewheres along the line spoke those words to me and it sticks in the back of my mind, filed away with all that right angle trigonometry, chemistry abreviations, (NaCl + H2O, blah blah blah) and the directions to Six Flags Over Georgia...
I can honestly say, sometimes the scores just don't reflect that simple test.
Steve "HOSS" Anker
ANKER OUTFITTERS
A-TEAM Gun Dog Training
FEATHER TERROR KENNELS

"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
User avatar
Steve Anker
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3443
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 7:20 pm
Location: The Ponderosa- Carlisle, New York

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby dualgwp » Mon May 17, 2010 7:23 pm

Could not agree with you more Steve, and that is the ONE major thing most judges of hunt tests forget! Judging dogs is not and should not be a black and white issue, a great performance with one small flaw should pass with flying colors. In my opinion, too many have read all the rules, but don't know dogs.
Dual
User avatar
dualgwp
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 7:19 am
Location: New Hope, PA

Re: MASTER HUNTER EXCELLENT, MHX

Postby DrahtsundBraats » Mon May 17, 2010 9:35 pm

A basic question: Would you like to hunt over this dog? Rings fairly true for every dog we spend the 30 minutes looking over. Would ya? Well, we're not asking if the dog is gonna set the field on fire, just IZZ the dog a dog you would like to spend a lazy afternoon shooting birds over?


I can agree with that in principle but I really think at the MH level especially, I want to see a dog with some "moxy". I don't mind walking behind an easy going bird finder for an afternoon but from the best dogs I expect to see more than just competence. I only ran a few MH stakes in my time and watched maybe a dozen more and I really thought the bar was set too low, such that it was unfair to the best dogs. I was at a Hunt Test In CT years back where I saw a stupendous GSP just eat up the course with style and "pop" pass an MH leg but so did a Vizla that rarely got beyond gun range. To be fair, I have also seen some NAVHDA dogs that were rewarded for competence, not excellence. I agree with Larue...we should be able to take the best dogs from either of these venues and with a little conditioning be competitive in FT....shouldn't be a huge difference.

Could be I don't understand the hunt test guidelines as well as I should.
DrahtsundBraats
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3917
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:41 am

PreviousNext

Return to (All Breed) Kennel Clubs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest