AKC Hunt Test vs NAVHDA

AKC, CKC, KC, ANKC, UKC, ENZI, etc. testing.

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AKC Hunt Test vs NAVHDA

Postby DilmunDD » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:51 pm

I am trying to get a clear understanding of AKC Hunt Tests for Pointers. A small description of what is expected in each test? How is it different then NAVHDA as far as training your dog? Where do you start? Do you train differently if you are going into a Hunt Test rather than a NAVHDA test? Are different things expected in the field? How is the scoring different? I know nothing about AKC Hunt Tests. Could someone help me with an overview? Thanks in advance for the help!!!!!!!!!! :D
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Postby Ryan » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:40 pm

AKC/CKC hunt tests are more about the upland pointing dog than the versatile dog like NAVHDA

Depending on the Level but in a HT the dog is required to Point, Hold point, Retrieve from land and water, be broke to W&S&F (once again at the right level) and back.

While the NAVHDA dog must not only do the things listed above but it must do a independent water search for 10 minutes, track, there is alot more obedience work to it, heel to and from a blind, as well as sit in or by the blind while the handler fires a gun.

This is just a quick run down of things.
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Postby DilmunDD » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 pm

Thanks Ryan! I am active in NAVHDA and the VDD. However, I just wasn't sure if they were looking for something different in AKC Hunt tests. That helped thanks. I was just curious! :D
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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:41 pm

I ran a few MH legs years ago and was a little disappointed. To me it seemed to be contrived compared to the NAVHDA UT field portion. Granted, dogs have to back as well, but handlers spent a lot of time coaching their dogs around the course, trying to keep the dogs from making mistakes rather than letting or encouraging the dogs to hunt. Birds were often not found on the back course and handlers often would keep their dogs close while walking to the bird field. Many times dogs were never more than 40-50 yds from the handler which for me is within the "influence" of the handler. Usually each dog points once, backs once, retrieves once and then its get out of "Dodge". Now I'm sure this may be different in other places but that's what I experienced. I wasn't impressed.

In the UT test, birds are on the entire course. Dogs run by themselves but are expected to have the same manners-steady to WS and F and deliver to hand. But it is not unusual for a dog to work 5-6 birds or more.
My bitch found 9 birds at her UT last fall.

I think the AKC needs to put some honesty back in the MH test. Its a good concept and there are undoubtedly some very good dogs. They deserve a better and honest format.
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Postby mngsp » Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:24 pm

Granted, dogs have to back as well, but handlers spent a lot of time coaching their dogs around the course, trying to keep the dogs from making mistakes rather than letting or encouraging the dogs to hunt. Birds were often not found on the back course and handlers often would keep their dogs close while walking to the bird field. Many times dogs were never more than 40-50 yds from the handler which for me is within the "influence" of the handler. Usually each dog points once, backs once, retrieves once and then its get out of "Dodge". Now I'm sure this may be different in other places but that's what I experienced. I wasn't impressed.


That's what made me darn tired of the AKC HT. The dogs taht do this type of crap won't pass under my judgement. What irks me is the fact that darn near every handler goes out "trying to beat the test" instead of showing off a true MH dog.

Enough of my ranting. The main difference I have always told people between a UT test and MH is that in the AKC MH all we have to judge is the upland field part, therefore they should be real stringent on staunchness and style, usually more so than what is expected in UT. While the UT test looks for displayed skills from many areas and might let some things slide in teh field that would get you hooked up in a MH test/

Both have thier flaws and advantages. Find what you enjoy and stay with it and keep training the dog.
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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:44 pm

While the UT test looks for displayed skills from many areas and might let some things slide in teh field that would get you hooked up in a MH test/


I'd like to know what you mean by this. I agree if a dog handles 5 birds perfectly and needs a mild correction on bird #6, the judges may let it slide. The UT test is about the whole "body" of work, not throwing dogs out on one infraction.

However, a UT 1 dog must be clean on point, be steady without any verbal "assistance" and retrieve with one command to hand---not one bird but every bird. Hope the judging is getting lax-I'd be very disappointed.
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Postby Ryan » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:23 pm

DB what you have described above is a pet pieve of mine and IMO dogs should be docked down for not leaving the gun and docked down even further for handler hacking their dogs to stay that close.

Its apart of the game now and I have some friends that do this. Try to get their 1 bird and start heading to cover that generally wont hold birds. MH and FDX is about a finished dogs and you shouldnt be worried about a dog handling birds. If you are this shows he/she isnt ready for the test.
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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:36 pm

Old buddy of mine used to say---if a hunt test is like hunting, then you should be trying to find as many birds as possible.

I remember at my first MH outing, I cut the dog loose and watched as she ran out and streaked down a hedgerow out of sight. The JUDGE asked me if I was sure I wanted to do that. I didn't know better being used to NAVHDA, I expected to let the dog loose and go hunting. She found three birds on the back course.
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Postby Ryan » Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:04 pm

A HT is a great oppritunity to show off your dog so why not show it off. If you start hacking on them they are going to get nervous and start bumping birds. I just treat it like any other hunting day or training day. Dogs bump birds it happens whether they are a 10 yards or 300 yards.
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Postby bntsetter » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:44 pm

I remember at my first MH outing, I cut the dog loose and watched as she ran out and streaked down a hedgerow out of sight. The JUDGE asked me if I was sure I wanted to do that.


That's because the judge was a poor one. Not the format..... He would have picked up your dog if she had bumped a bird too no doubt....
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