AKC Hunt Test

AKC, CKC, KC, ANKC, UKC, ENZI, etc. testing.

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Postby gezer » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:34 pm

Tony, could you not also have the NAVHDA folks judge your dogs field work also?...I would like to see a hard test also...I am suprised the club got what they did in....its a start, would like to see it build upon what is IMO a fair start for a club that had no test a few years back
Ron, handler of 27 meat dogs and proud owner of 2 chest freezers
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Postby dualgwp » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:08 pm

Tony
have you ever offered to help change any of these things you apparently don't care for? Ever offered to be on any committee or put some time into helping us change things?

Your expertise and abilities would be put to good use.

Feel free to step up anytime!
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Postby Vom Britt » Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:53 pm

Tony, what standard are you referring to, the watering hole standard:?: You probably earned,well were given those ribbons at the watering hole, and I thought the reason you were getting after your dog when it failed the test was because it was being aggresive. Now I now you were really upset at the way the test was set up and was taking it out on your dog on the way back to your truck & at the truck, instead of the club & or judges. With all of the time you were given and the wind moving birds toward the shoreline which you tried to send your dog from their is only one reason for failure. We talked briefly the next day and you never said a word about the water test, why? You really know what is a CROCK of SH--T:?: an AKC judge getting physical/abusive to his dogs at a test in front of everyone to see, not one but two days and the second day in front of an AKC rep. How do you explain this to folks who came out to see what an AKC Hunt test is all about? We tried and left the he is a judge out of it :( But hey, if you won't enter a WT because it is not a gimme find one that your dog can pass, must be easier than basic training for a simple & I mean simple water retrieve.
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Postby yawallac » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:00 pm

Ouch.
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Postby Tony » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:41 pm

Bob,

There is no standard for the water test. Every test I have been to has been a totally different set-up; who knows what Bob is going to come up with next year??? Last year I passed the water test with both dogs at Kelly Farms with no problem what-so-ever. This year I show up and I have to try to explain to my puppy that she has to swim out near the creepy dude in the boat and retrieve the unknown object that he threw in the water.

Regarding the physical abuse, you have got to be kidding. :roll: My dogs get hauled around by the collar all of the time. I would be crippled by now if I stooped over so they could walk on four feet instead of two.
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Postby yawallac » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:47 pm

Regarding the physical abuse, you have got to be kidding. My dogs get hauled around by the collar all of the time. I would be crippled by now if I stooped over so they could walk on four feet instead of two.

Now that is FUNNY!! I must be an abuser too!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Steve Anker » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:43 am

Thanks Steve. Actually, everyone wants you to come again this year!!!!


Hey Dual-

That was an interesting test, had a great time watching the Woolies swim and fetch, easy as pie for the shaggy dogs.
Refresh us,
GWPs gotcha, Weims okay, who else needs a water certification?
Veeezles? GSPs are reduced to a Certificate but not the requirement for any title.
Steve "HOSS" Anker
ANKER OUTFITTERS
A-TEAM Gun Dog Training
FEATHER TERROR KENNELS

"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Postby dualgwp » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:01 am

Hey Steve, you got to see some truly good dogs in the water, some so so dogs and one whose brain was elsewhere that day. But it was a great day.

ONLY GWP's and Weims need a water test for a FC or AFC

ONLY GWP's need a water test for a SH or MH title.

That be it!
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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:49 pm

Tony
have you ever offered to help change any of these things you apparently don't care for? Ever offered to be on any committee or put some time into helping us change things?

Your expertise and abilities would be put to good use.

Feel free to step up anytime!
Dual


For what purpose are the officers and directors elected?...one would think it would be to lead... :wink:
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Postby dualgwp » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:25 pm

Lead and direct is one thing, do everything that everyone thinks they want done is a whole nother can of worms.

People need to be responsible for what they want. Groups of volunteers cannot be expected to do everyones homework for them.

We have people willing to lead as much as they can, however others have to be willing to step up and be part of the process, win or lose.

Those who sit back and simply complain, but not willing to put in the hours of work involved are nothing more than hot air. If you want something changed, get in there and make the effort.

I got a call this week from someone more than willing to tell me everything wrong with the process, hated it, everything was bad, nothing was right. But ask them to put their name and time on the line to do something about it.... No, nah, not my problem. Yea, right. I'll spend my hours to spin my wheels to solve what you think is wrong. And you will spend exactly how much time involved in this battle? None? Watch me fight for you.

Leaders can only do what is asked of them to do. If they make the wrong choice, it is up to us to hold their feet to the fire to make a correction. Don't ask for a correction, then slink about bitch'n about it.... you get what you put in.

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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:21 pm

You make good points. However, I'm sure the "leadership" hears many good suggestions. It is leadership's responsibility to lead and propose that which is in the best interest of the breed. Waiting for a guy that works the night shift to lead the club to higher calling shouldn't be the only way to get something done although I do believe in the self-help principle. The best way to get mired in inertia in any organization is to sit and wait for the grassroots movement while the sedentary "same old" sets in.

We disagree---
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Postby gezer » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:25 pm

Dual, understand your constination...it is disconcerting when folk sit on the sidelines and talk....but don't join the booster club...don't work the refreshment stand...won't do the car wash..only thing I will say is that as a leader sometimes those folk do have good ideas....even the most obstinent ones...and as a leader we must look past what they bring to the fight and do what is right for the breed, club, organization...even if the idea comes from a idiot
Ron, handler of 27 meat dogs and proud owner of 2 chest freezers
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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:51 am

have you ever offered to help change any of these things you apparently don't care for? Ever offered to be on any committee or put some time into helping us change things?


I'm willing to bet that Tony's problem is the same I had with the official GWP club and that is that few folks want serious change. Very difficult to get folks that are fully invested in dog shows, Junior Hunters and meaningless water tests to change direction and set some real standards. As an example....all the hoopla about a Versatile Dog title and the years of committee work did nothing more than to water the word "versatile: down to the point where any dog with a CH, a passing NA score and the simplest Rally title is awarded a versatile title (the CH represents 67% of the requirement). It is small wonder that meaningless water work is "appended" as a requirement for a field title.

IMO, the members of this club don't want higher standards....cause its not about the breed, its about them. This club is stagnating while the GWP in NAVHDA and the VDD have exploded over the past 15 years. Doesn't take much to figure out that dog shows, field trials and "Rally" are not selling.

What really makes me chuckle is how the club holds its Nationals in the middle of the best bird hunting days of the year. Figure that one out. Well, I guess its not so bad....all the show dogs come.
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Postby dualgwp » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:30 am

I won't argue at all about the Versatile program, that one totally went up my chaps!!!!!!!! The entire Board fought it for almost 2 yrs. Unfortunately the people out there did not stand up and fight with us, we heard nada from the hunting community, they did not stand up and say no. Saying nothing is like saying you agree and when it appears the majority of the membership agrees there isn't much to be done to stop it.

Most all of the sporting dog clubs have a Versatility program, and they call it just that. The GWPCA is about one of the last to adopt it.

This breed has always needed a water test for an FC, so it's nothing new there. Like it or not, it's always been a requirement. Want something more, bring it on! Do something about it.

Concerning membership, actually it is up by about 25% in the past few yrs. And we've had this discussion before, NAVHDA has huge membership numbers because you must be a member in order to test with them. How many of those members have been members for more than 5 yrs? 10 yrs? I'd bet if that wasn't a requirement, their numbers wouldn't be a high as they are. No one has to be a member of the GWPCA to do anything with in the clubs activities. Does one have to be a member of the VDD to breed or test? What is the membership numbers of GNA?

I've been a member of the GWPCA since 1980.....
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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:22 am

Bernee,

Your problem is the same as all AKC clubs...they are democracies!!! :lol:
I know you well enough that I KNEW you were gagging when the Versatile protocol was adopted...good word an NA PR III is any dog that can walk and breath at the same time. But the CH being worth "8"!!!! of the necessary "12" points really got me laughing.

What the water test really says is that the membership feels that this is "meaningful". As Tony once wrote, we expect any 3-4 month old puppy to swim out 20 yds and get a dead bird. Even in NAVHDA if a dead bird is required to get a dog to enter the water in the NA test, the predicate is automatically lowered to "2" and the dog will get no more than a PR III. Your membership has low expectations. Its about feeling good and not about setting the bar to profit the breed...the same goes for the Versatile Dog title...and IMO this is why the hunters are not interested in what goes on there. It is ironic that the "hunting community" in the breed has gone elsewhere. The hunting community has expectations far above where most of your members have set the bar and they see their time better spent where the expectations are higher.

There are a core of serious folk in your club, but as long as the majority with low expectations set the bar, that's what you'll get. Settle for less---and you get less. Its ironic that the club sets standards from which the serious folks want to distance themselves.

I'm waiting for the FDSB to reorganize the requirements for FC.....one puppy class placement, a sit and stay on command, and walk in the water up to its elbows!!!! Don't worry, the FCX will have higher expectations
:lol: :lol:


Does one have to be a member of the VDD to breed or test?


Yes and Yes. Correct me if I'm wrong but there are 5-6 other registries where GWP can be bred (AKC, UKC, NAVHDA, FDSB, CKC, ??) and where there are no breeding requirements.

What is the membership numbers of GNA?


About 1100 or twice the size of the GWPCA.
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