CKC hunt test rule changes?

AKC, CKC, KC, ANKC, UKC, ENZI, etc. testing.

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Postby db7 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:06 pm

If it drops the bird partial marks givin holding the bird and bringing it right to the handler should receive full marks.


Yes, as far as i see that is the rule BUT if the dog drops it more than one step away than that would be a fail.
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Postby slistoe » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:27 pm

db7 wrote:
If it drops the bird partial marks givin holding the bird and bringing it right to the handler should receive full marks.


Yes, as far as i see that is the rule BUT if the dog drops it more than one step away than that would be a fail.


Unless you can get the dog to pick it up again and bring it the rest of the way in.

Delivering to hand needs no interpretation. The dog brings you the bird and holds it till you take it from him. That gets you a ten provided the quickly and tenderly requirements are met (those apply to the going out, picking up, coming in and handing over actions). Because these are pointing dogs and this is a functional working test, a front or side delivery are both acceptable, as is a sitting or standing posture.
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Postby slistoe » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:31 pm

Ryan wrote:So whats one step? I can make a big step of 5 or 6 feet somone smaller may only be able to do 3 or 4. The dog should bring the bird to you so you dont have to move more than 2 or 3 feet. If it drops the bird partial marks givin holding the bird and bringing it right to the handler should receive full marks.


For those that want to stretch the rule, that is the rule. You must remain in the place from where the retrieve initiated. Like basketball, as long as one foot is still planted in that place I cannot say you "moved from it". Gets you a 5 on my score sheet.
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Postby jobird » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:03 pm

All of the times that we have tested over the last 2 years, NO STEP was ever allowed. Not Forward, Not Backward, NONE. The bird must be brought to within your reach, without moving your feet, to be considered a retrieve. You can reach an awful long way, as evidenced by a friend who got qualifying scores towards FD. She was able to use her fingertips to pull the bird close enough to be able to pick it up. The rule about one step seems to be used at the judges discretion to move you out of a spot that is difficult for the dog to retrieve to, ie: you are standing in the middle of a patch of rosebushes, but some judges (like one that my husband had) may leave you in the bush even if you ask to move and tell you "Let's see if the dog will do it anyway." She didn't. She brought it to the edge of the bush and left it there. She got 3 for 10 on the retrieve. One step out of the bush would have allowed by husband to pick up the bird, but if you move your feet you will FAIL. ALWAYS ask the judges if you can move before you move. No one should fail because they are interpreting the the rules one way the judges are interpreting them another.

On another note, the dog can set down the bird and then pick it back up and bring it in. The dog will be marked down, but as long as the bird isn't munched and is within reach, you will pass. At least the way most of the tests are being done in Alberta over the last little bit.

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Postby db7 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:57 pm

why would he be stuck in a rose bush? You can move anywhere you like before you send the dog. It is only after the dog is sent on the retrieve that you have to stay in the spot. So why not choose out of the roses?
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Postby slistoe » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:28 pm

I can see this as being a potential problem for many who train to release their dogs only on a physical tap. If the dog is pointing in the middle of the rose thicket you have no choice but to wade in there to release the dog. Once the dog is released you have no choice by the rule but to remain standing in that rose thicket.

Otherwise, there is no excuse for standing in an impossible place other than poor planning by the handler. One of those expensive lessons.
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Postby jobird » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:41 pm

The bird was in the rose thicket. The dog was pointing from outside the thicket. My husband waded in to flush the bird and the dog broke once the bird was in the air. Yes, she should have been steadier, but once she broke, the judge decided that was the start of the retrieve. Since my husband was in the bush, the judge decided that was where the retrieve should be made to. Yes, it was an expensive lesson and heartbreaking to get an 83% fail.

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Postby db7 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:07 pm

Now in this situation, the dog broke point on the flush, which is allowed for a pass at FD level, which left the handler in a bad place.

So the dog was smart enough to stay out of the thorns.

Can the judge not decide to set up a retrieve for the dog to properly evaluate the dog?
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Postby slistoe » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:23 pm

db7 wrote:So the dog was smart enough to stay out of the thorns.


??????
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Postby slistoe » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:27 pm

db7 wrote:Can the judge not decide to set up a retrieve for the dog to properly evaluate the dog?


If the judge was inclined to do that he would have just let him take a step out of the roses in the first place as per the rules (judges permission). Obviously this judge believed that a dog worthy of passing would not have given the bushes a second thought.
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Postby jobird » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:38 am

Yes. That is what the judge decided which is her perogative. I paid my money and got her opinion on that day. I don't dispute that, I just wanted to make sure that no one ends up failing a test b/c they think they should be able to move and they did not get permission to do so.

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