Starting a puppy in Hunt Tests and Field Trials

AKC, CKC, KC, ANKC, UKC, ENZI, etc. testing.

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Postby anne » Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:12 pm

I used to be in the So Cal NAVHDA club and am now in the San Diego NAVHDA club. There is also a second NAVHDA club in the SD area (Backcountry). Everyone I have met in all 3 clubs are very helpful. We also field trial and do hunt tests. I train with a pointer person who dos AKC field trials and American field, and occasionally NSTRA. Feel free to email me anne@weim.net if you are still having trouble connecting with someone.
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Postby Greg Jennings » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:15 pm

Bottom line:

If you're interested in field trials, you need to develop your dog for field trials.

If you're interested in hunt tests, you can do both hunt test kinds of training and NAVHDA kinds of training. The NAVHDA training will include more areas of training. To wit, water work.

If you want to do both HT and FT, develop for FT first and come back to HT later. You can always pull them back in, but pushing them out is problematic.

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Postby ohiogsp » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:09 pm

SwitchGrassWPG wrote:I think you'd be suprised at the level of training needed for a NAVHDA test. The Utility test makes SH and MH look like a walk in the park. Not putting them down as my dog and I are currently working towards UT and SH.

Jay


How many master dogs have you finished? I don't think you would find many people that have master dogs to say it was a walk in the park. The top level of basically any format is usually hard. (NAVHDA included)
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Postby yawallac » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:48 pm

ohiogsp

I think that any handler/trainer that has put a UT I on a dog would consider the MH an easier title. I'm not saying that an MH is easy but a lot more comprehensive training goes into a NAVHDA UT I title.
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Postby ohiogsp » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:17 am

I am saying I would not comment to how easy something is that I have not done.
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Postby Greg Jennings » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:25 am

Haven't completed MH, I'm 1 leg up. Haven't done UT. I train side-by-side and help the guy that put the first UT 1 on an Irish Setter.

My take is that the UT is *a tad* more forgiving in steadiness on point and back, but has quite a bit more material to cover.

This is an honest question, not a poke about something I really don't know anything about....

Does anyone know of a dog that is a both a successful Field Trial dog and a UT 1 dog?

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Postby Coveyrise64 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:23 pm

I know of two, FC VC Shooting Starr's Bonnie MH and FC VC Dr N's CJ MH. The FC titles are AKC. I'm sure there are probably others. Hunted with Bonnie and have two dogs of my own from CJ.

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Postby Greg Jennings » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:35 pm

Do you know what order that they got the titles?

It's, of course, an incredible achievement. Just fitting in everything would be terribly hard.

We're chasing a DC with our young dog. Just finding time to get everything in is tough.

E.g., the trial season and the show season have a lot of overlap. How do you do both? Even if you go to the FT on weekend one and the conformation show in weekend two, how do you keep your dog in both field trial shape and show shape?

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Postby Coveyrise64 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:06 pm

I don't know the specific order of their titles. I do know CJ was both an AKC FC as well as a AKC AM FC and I believe was handled by the owners through most of the other titles as well. Bonnie is also (I think) 1 win short of her show title and is handled and trained by her owner (except for the show ring). In most cases I would assume the dogs are pretty much their full priority. Now that my nest is pretty much empty they occupy most of my time doing Hunt Tests and UT events as well.

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Postby yawallac » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:01 pm

Greg,

There isn't necessarily a prescribed order, but most folks that have visions of a dual will complete the show title first for a number of reasons. First, as you alluded to, show condition and field condition are different and you can't keep a dog in condition for both simultaneously. Second, they don't want the dog to get injured/scarred in the field making the dog more difficult to finish in the breed ring. Also, most show dogs have their whiskers clipped. I do not like to see dogs running in the field without whiskers because they are more prone to eye injuries. Additionally it is easier to finish a dog at a younger age in the breed ring making it the logical choice. Regardless it is wise to do either one or the other and not both.

As far as your first question goes. I like to put UT titles on my dogs before competing in AF/AKC horseback trials. Hunt tests next and then just have fun in NSTRA. Good dogs can both perform well in NAVHDA and compete in FTs. It just takes the right dog. It's really more a matter of time and expense than anything else. I love running in horseback trials but I have to use a wrangler for a horse and that's a pain in the neck. Some of their horses are awful! It would be a lot easier if I had my own horses but if I went that route than I would probably only do FTs simply to justify the cost. :) I had a GSP that was a UT and a NSTRA Champion and had several AF placements. I also had a GSP that was a CH, MH and UT. I really like to play all the games.
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Postby ohiogsp » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:34 pm

yawallac, that is impressive. It is very hard to do different formats.
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Postby CherrystoneWeims » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:36 pm

yawallac wrote:Greg,

There isn't necessarily a prescribed order, but most folks that have visions of a dual will complete the show title first for a number of reasons. First, as you alluded to, show condition and field condition are different and you can't keep a dog in condition for both simultaneously. Second, they don't want the dog to get injured/scarred in the field making the dog more difficult to finish in the breed ring. Also, most show dogs have their whiskers clipped. I do not like to see dogs running in the field without whiskers because they are more prone to eye injuries. Additionally it is easier to finish a dog at a younger age in the breed ring making it the logical choice. Regardless it is wise to do either one or the other and not both.

As far as your first question goes. I like to put UT titles on my dogs before competing in AF/AKC horseback trials. Hunt tests next and then just have fun in NSTRA. Good dogs can both perform well in NAVHDA and compete in FTs. It just takes the right dog. It's really more a matter of time and expense than anything else. I love running in horseback trials but I have to use a wrangler for a horse and that's a pain in the neck. Some of their horses are awful! It would be a lot easier if I had my own horses but if I went that route than I would probably only do FTs simply to justify the cost. :) I had a GSP that was a UT and a NSTRA Champion and had several AF placements. I also had a GSP that was a CH, MH and UT. I really like to play all the games.


I don't trim my dogs' whiskers for the showring. I don't believe in it and many of us in Weims don't do whiskers. I also do field work AND show them at the same time. If they get a scar then so be it. That's just part of being a dog. So far I haven't run them in field trials but I think that the field work makes them look great for the show ring! I hate to see the out of condition show dogs. But then again my dogs don't have all that coat to deal with.

Yawallac, you must know Mark from Sarasetter if you do American field.
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Postby mngsp » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:54 pm

Does anyone know of a dog that is a both a successful Field Trial dog and a UT 1 dog?


Larue has an FC, MH, UTI GSP at home. I'm not sure how Tony McGrane has done with his wires. I know he does both just not sure of which dog has accomplished what.
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Postby larue » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:11 pm

Cj,ran his trials first,then went on to navhda.
My max ran his first 4 years in navhda,then we started to play the trial game,when max was about 5 I got my first horse.
Bonnie ran navhda and trials at the same time,with her running in walking trials most of the time.
I have been through it,it is certainly easier to run trials first,then run navdha.I have ran max at booneville,eureka,basset,and in two invites
in nstra,(one trip to the dog of the year) in pheasant tournaments.
I will always wonder how well max could have done in trials if he had been trained from day one in them,his am shooting dog pointer trial win shows he can run,I honestly believe he could have done more at the next level if he had ran trials first.
Another fc/ut 1 is a dog named topguns jake,owned by steve riese.
There are no doubt others.
I will probably run max this fall at our walking trial,at ten he can still get around,and I know he will be broke.
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Postby mngsp » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:29 pm

I forgot about Jake.

I will probably run max this fall at our walking trial,at ten he can still get around,and I know he will be broke.


Great, besides all the other dogs there I still have to worry about beating the old man...never an easy task. Maybe I should bring my 10 yr old GWP bitch...no I dont think so. I sure do enjoy seeing dogs like Max that even at 10 still are athletic and can move around the course well.
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