master hunt regulations

AKC, CKC, KC, ANKC, UKC, ENZI, etc. testing.

Moderator: Moderator Pack

master hunt regulations

Postby DK dreams » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:40 am

Can anyone specify what is not allowed/permisable during an AKC master hunt test?From what I understand some of the judges can be sticklers when it comes to the regulations. Not that that's a bad thing, but if I accidently walk in with my dogs lead I don't want to fail because I brought a training device on the field.
Thanks for any info,
Francine
DK dreams
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1598
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:04 am

Postby mngsp » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:47 am

Francine

Different judges have different views of things. You are correct a leash being carried in your hand can be considered a training aid. The best thing to do is after you trun your dog loose just put the lead in your pocket or over your shoulder, just don't carry it.

I will usually watch the handlers and if after a minute or so they are still carrying the lead I will ask them to put it away, a polite warning you could say. If I see it out again after that while your dog is still on the clock I will not be happy and probably NQ your dog because of failure to listen to the judges instructions.

Handling in a Hunt Test, especially MH, can be stressful. Most judges are more than willing to answer any questions you have or offer advice to help. Please listen to the judges, they are the ones that can make it easier or harder for you on any given day.
mngsp
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:43 am
Location: Mandan, ND

Postby JoeBoy » Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:57 pm

MNGSP is right on the money. Look at it in another light. Would you carry your leash in your hand if you were going to be in the field hunting? I would hope not. These tests should simulate an actual hunting experience...if they don't, it's time for the particular club you run your dog in to change its ways.

Look for those clubs that offer multiple courses for the Senior & Master dogs that is seperate from the Junior dogs. This will help you understand those who merely put on an event and those who go the extra mle to test ones dogs ability in a realistic and more enjoyable environment. After all, aren't we in the field for the experience and not just to bag game?
JoeBoy
 

Postby DK dreams » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:48 pm

Thank you for the replys. I am interested in knowing about range. he is young and although he does adjust, a little, for heavier cover, he does tend to be out about 50 - 75 yards. Is that to much for a MH test and should I work on keeping him in closer?Also, he tends to cover a lot of ground quite fast. He does not miss any points, in fact he has slammed on the brakes more than once.I am also interested, from anyone's experience, in handler mistakes. This will be my first time handling, we have only done JH, and I don't want him to fail because of me.And one last question, if his brace mate, for whatever reason,interferes, what can I do about it?
DK dreams
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1598
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:04 am

Postby mngsp » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:51 pm

Range. As long as the dog shows he is hunting for you I'm not to picky on range. If the terrain allows, a dog can obviously be hunting for you at 300-400 yards, other times 50-75 may be pushing the limts. I like to see a handler trust thier dog, I'm getting fed up with handlers that panic whenever their dog goes over a hill, this is Master Hunter, trust your dog!!! Nothing looks better than having a dog go over a hill and riding over the ridge to find him standing tall and staunch, with the handler calmly going over to handle the bird! If you can't trust your dog that is entered in a Master Test to hanle this situation I would rather see people spend more time training so that dog is ready for the test.

Handler mistakes...trust your dog at this level. When your dog is on point please watch your use of the word "whoa" and an out reached hand. Never be afraid to ask a judge what they want you and your dog to do in any given situation, we like to help. This sometimes takes some experience to understand, but do what you can to make your dog come through clean. WHile this isn't always the prettiest way to do things it is better than have the dog blow up himself, make the judges make a decision, I for one like to look at a dogs complete performance to determine a qualifying score,. If the dog does stellar work in all of the test with the exception of maybe one indiscretion, he may still pass.

Bracemates. In a Master test most judges will have very little tolerence for a bracemate that tags or interfers. WHile some of this is acceptable in JH or SH the Master dog should have one purpose...to find and produce birds for the handler. Hopefully the judges will give one warning to the violater and thats it.
mngsp
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:43 am
Location: Mandan, ND

Range & Interference in a HT

Postby JoeBoy » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:26 pm

Adaptability is the name of the game. Wind, Terrain, cover etc.. all play a major factor in what range your dog should be working at. Over the past few years of judging, I have noticed one MAJOR change in the dogs that have been entered in the HT games. Dogs entered these last two years have been boring, mindless, mechanical dogs that aren't allwed to think for themselves! By this I mean that the handlers do not allow their dogs to make that 200-300 yard cast towards the plumb thicket or hedge row. They want the dog within the first 50 yards or so right smack dab in front of where they are walking. ( usually down a mowed trail or some rediculous deal like that ) The Master Test IS NOT designed for the 1-2 year old dog. It is meant to test a seasoned dogs ability to do superior work in the field not just adequate. A master dog should be just that, a master not a high quality senior dog.

As far as making mistakes as a handler....let me tell you this one thing. You WILL make mistakes out there, it's just a matter of time. We have all had our HFU's (as we like to call them) All you can do is learn from them in the form of another $30-$35 entry fee to the next test.

I like the fact that you are interested in continuing into the SH and the MH levels of the AKC hunt tests. Do not be afraid to ask questions of others that are running in the test. This is not a time to let pride get in the way of success. Be bold and ask the questions that you do not have the answers to. People are more than willing to help those just getting started in the games. Trust me, I came over from the Labs about 7 years ago and I found that if you are not willing to ask the questions, people do not have any idea as to what level of knowledge you posess in training.
JoeBoy
 

Postby DK dreams » Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:34 am

Since the two of you know what it's all about, let me run this by you. My DK is almost 7 months old. He HUNTS. Other dogs are not a distraction for him. He does honor. He points, so far, every bird he has come across. He is steady to flush. I am now working on fall, wild flush and walking bird scenarios.He has just finished being FF and reteiving to hand is not a problem. If I were to get him completely steady, would you say entering a 10 month old pup is to soon. He will have been hunted over about 10 times before the first test.To watch him work is a joy. He is very serious in the field. His only objective is the hunt and bringing that bird to me.
DK dreams
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1598
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:04 am

Postby mngsp » Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:32 pm

There are always exceptions...but I wouldn't run enter a dog in an MH test until he is at least 1 1/2 yrs, prefereby two with a lot of wild bird hunting under his belt. The wild birds and the chaos of a lot of hunting may test his steadiness but in the long run what that dog learns out there will help him the rest of his life both hunting and testing or trialing.

It sounds like your dog is coming along well. I'd just keep working him and hunting him for the experience. For you the handler I would walk as many MH braces as I could to see what type of things happen and what is expected. If you can get your local club to let you gun for some SH or MH tests thats even better.

Have fun with the dog, there's no hurry to have a finished dog.
mngsp
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:43 am
Location: Mandan, ND

Postby JoeBoy » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:11 pm

There are a few different ways of answering your questions. Lets give it a whirl.... First of all MNGSP is right again about not being in a hurry to have a finished dog. It will happen, so don't rush it if he and you aren't 100% ready for the master test levels. I also agree in that walking behind as many MH braces that you can in the near future will also be very beneficial to you. As I sit in the saddle, I would say that about 40% of disqualifications occur because the handler either isn't paying enough attention to their dog, or they are out of their mind in being over nervous.

In regards to you Q about running a 10 month old pup through the master test...Yes it can , and has been done. I have seen a 7 month old finish his MH title, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it to anyone, especially someone who isn't familiar with the whole HT game.( no offense ) Please take the time to get acquainted with a local breed club or and all breed club. They have a multitude of knowledge there for your picking. Get ivloved and get every bit of potential out of your dog.

Good luck, and hope to see you at the HT's this year.

JoeBoy
JoeBoy
 

Postby DK dreams » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:30 pm

I am somewhat familiar with the tests. I have seen a few but back around 10 years ago. We have had shorthairs for almost 13 years now. I have rarely seen such a mature pup though. If I can get him steady the way I want I will go for it. First test is in March. I will keep you updated on our successess and dare I say, failures.

Thanks again for your input,
Francine
DK dreams
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1598
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:04 am

Postby JoeBoy » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:54 pm

The very best of luck...I've been in the position that you are in, and it's a great place to be.
JoeBoy
 

Postby Hunters Edge » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:05 am

First off DK if the dog is ready the dog is ready. The only problem you will find is politics some judges will not pass a young dog just like some FT judges do not judge gun dog by the guidelines or rules but want a open or derby run and a scout to find the dog and the handler to give commands constantly with hup hup hup they may call in singing but the rules spicifically state minimum noise (remember your question about the leash).

So when your testing your pup you will see in the performance of your dog and the scoring the judges give which judge judges by the rules and which ones judge how they want or by politics or thier opinions or their rules.

Second if your going to run MH you need to get more run out of your dogs 50 to 75 yards in most spring tests where the grass is knocked down or still has snow on the ground will definately not be sufficient ground coverage. Now some will allow or pass a bootlicker again you will see on how they judge the beast. So for both reasons jot their names down so you can remember in future tests which ones judge and which ones just give opinions and also which ones allow bootlickers to pass.

I had a bitch that did pass at 11 months 17 days finished she should have been much earlier but again it depends on which judge you get. Also had a NA test the same day so had to wait until later to have the MH test otherwise if I did not test her in NA she would have been younger and also she came in heat. Still at 11 months 17 days with the different judges, heat cycle and doing an NA test I am quite proud of my little Princess or actually VC Hunters Edge Little Princess MH, UT pzI, NA PzI, RDX. Just remember I will be rooten for you and your pup. March is a ways off so start your milk runs and see if neighboring states may have earlier test dates . If things go well great if not check again on neighboring states for later dates, thats exactly what me and another handler had to do because of the heat cycle and the na test which I mentioned earlier. I started her at 9 months but she came in heat.
Hunters Edge Kennel where Versatile Champions are born. Call on expected whelped dates or breedings, hunters only, please.
User avatar
Hunters Edge
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 12:17 pm
Location: Northern, Michigan

Postby Hunters Edge » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:08 am

Even as a pup she was a bird finding machine or vacuam. Many hunt tests 7 to 9 finds yeh she is a keeper. Any way good luck with your pup and he does not have to be a vacuam just find a bird and handle it correctly but I would work on his range.
Hunters Edge Kennel where Versatile Champions are born. Call on expected whelped dates or breedings, hunters only, please.
User avatar
Hunters Edge
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 12:17 pm
Location: Northern, Michigan

Postby ohiogsp » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:51 am

Will your dog stand through the shot and retrieve of anouther dog? Why not run SH first? Can you heal your dog off a blanked bird without it going back to that same bird when you release it? I have also had it where I had to heal my dog from a bird I could not even flush because of a high fence I could not get around. He did not want to do this.
User avatar
ohiogsp
Started
Started
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:49 am

Postby doublegun » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:51 pm

If the dog does stellar work in all of the test with the exception of maybe one indiscretion, he may still pass. Please define what you mean by one indiscretion?
doublegun
Seasoned
Seasoned
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:20 pm

Next

Return to (All Breed) Kennel Clubs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest