Water Test?

AKC, CKC, KC, ANKC, UKC, ENZI, etc. testing.

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Postby larue » Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:52 am

mngsp,I think it would be great to show that gsp's will go into cold water,
it would open up some trialers eyes to watch shorthairs retrieve from
cold water.
Now I would run several of mine,but would anyone else be brave enough to give the cold weather a try?
I will talk to our club,I have a few ideas for next year,like adding an am limited stake,evnetually I would love to have a kill on course.
I am also wondering about going to am stakes in the puppy/derby,if am puppy/derby points cross over to open,and as we have yet to have a pro at the trial,why not go to am puppy/derby?
I will have to check if am puppy/derby cross over to open points.
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Postby mngsp » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:10 am

I have no idea how mine would do in cold water? I know he is a water beast in the summer.

Amateur Limited stake would be a good one to have. For our walking trial this year we are just gonna do kill on course in the first stake, the Open Gun Dog. The final stake of the weekend, the AGD, we aren't even going to have as retrieving. Finding that on that last stake help is starting to get scarce at the trial and finding gunners is a burden.

I'm not sure about the Am puppy/derby points crossing over. But without any pros it's worth looking into.
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Postby slistoe » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:32 am

The point of an Amateur stake is to keep the pros from being able to enter. If no pros are entering the open stake what is the point? Are there people who don't enter because they think there will be pros in the Open and don't want the competition? I don't get it.
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Postby mngsp » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:34 am

I think it may be more the oppurtunity to get amateur points. It's not that uncommon at many trials the only amateur stake offered is a single gun dog stake.

Also like in Larue's trial. If he added an Amateur Ltd Gun Dog in addition to the Open Gun Dog and Amateur Gun Dog it would give me and others a chance to run a third stake with basically the same fixed costs of fuel, food, and lodging. More econmical that way. This is also a walking trial, which while becoming more people still aren't as easy to find as horseback trials. There are a lot of people that really hit the walking trials hard.
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Postby CherrystoneWeims » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:15 am

mngsp wrote:
The GWP Club will recognize a retrieving test from a Weimaraner Club or a GWP Club.


Does that just cover the standard AKC type water test or does that inlcude The WCA Retriever Ratings tests such as NRD, RD, and RDX?

.


That includes the WCA Retrieval ratings tests. As of Jan 2007 the tests no longer have to be held on the same day as a hunt test.

We invite the GWP people to our retrieval ratings.
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Postby slistoe » Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:30 pm

I was thinking more in regards to the changing of the Open Puppy/Derby to an Amateur Puppy/Derby. Now, if the club was considering offering an Am. P/D in addition to the Open to have more opportunity for folks to run their dogs I can see it.
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Postby Hunters Edge » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:18 pm

It may not be 70 degrees but it still will not matter, any way to dish a breed I would believe their comment would be its not cold enought not breaking ice.

To be honest most failures came in the beginner or NRD and most were field trialers. At the time they just thought they would do it but hitting the water for a bumper is not the same for a duck and I believe that was the main reason for failure (NO TRAINING).

I hope you do put one on Larue just I would try to make it early in the season not for any reason but to get more people involved. If they have a good time, a good meal work will spread and more dogs will be entered and rewarded with a certificate from GSPCA. In time enough entries and certificates AKC will recognize the event and will accomadate the title. Of course at that time it should open the door for more participants. Hey even if you do it in the dead of winter just hope you hold the event, I will say though it will be hard to hold the event/test without participation from entries and just the help. You will need two judges, usually two gunners and two wingers and someone to run the birds back around and a marshall. Good luck and have fun
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Postby Vom Britt » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:29 pm

mngsp wrote:Raydar, that's why the test is so well recognized due to the organization and promotion by the GSPCA.

There is to my knowledge no centralized schedule of these tests. It is a GSPCA event done my member clubs.

Here is the rules I recieved from Dean Browning last year when our club tried to organize one in conjunction with our Fall Hunt Test. Ultimately we had to cancel it due to lack of swimmable water. But the amazing thing is that a fly sheet for it was sent out along with our HT premium to over three hundred people and we had about 1/2 dozen dogs entered at max. The RD and RDX titles are some pretty nice titles, but I fear NRD will become just like the JH title is becoming.... a way for show dogs to be "field titled" and not a way to get new people involved and advancing to higher levels of testing.

Here are the rules......

GERMAN SHORTHAIRED POINTER CLUB OF AMERICA
WATER TEST RATING STANDARDS

SECTION 1
The following Ratings are offered by the German Shorthaired Pointer Club of America to it's members to enable owners of German Shorthaired Pointers showing the ability in the following activities permanently in conjunction with the dog's name.
Any dog earning a Rating will be issued the appropriate Certificate by the Secretary and signed by an Officer of the Club.
SECTION II
The Ratings offered by the German Shorthaired Pointer Club of America are the following:
Novice Retrieving Dog NRD
Retrieving Dog RD
Retrieving Dog Excellent RDX

SECTION III
Eligibility of Dogs
A. Any German Shorthaired Pointer with an individual AKC number, an AKC "Limited Registration" and/or an ILP number who has obtained the age of six (6) months on the first advertised day of the tests may compete for any or all of the ratings offered.
B. Ratings Tests are open to all German Shorthaired Pointers whose owners and co-owners are members of the German Shorthaired Pointer Club of America.
C. Spayed bitches or neutered males may compete for and receive ratings.

SECTION IV
Eligibility of Club and Procedure
A. Any AKC recognized German Shorthaired Pointer Club recognized by and registered with the German
Shorthaired Pointer Club of America shall be eligible to conduct rating tests provided that the club
complies fully with all portions of these rating standards. All tests shall be witnessed by a GSPCA
representative. The GSPCA reserves the right to appoint a representative of their choice to observe any
test sponsored by any club.
1. It shall be the responsibility of the GSPCA representative to review all rules with the judges and
rating test Committee to be sure that all points are fully understood, prior to the test.
2. It is the duty of the GSPCA representative to assure that the test is conducted in accordance with
the rules. The rating test chairperson of the sponsoring club shall be responsible to the GSPCA
representative.
3. All Result forms both pass and fail, must be returned to the GSPCA Water Test Administrator
and the local club shall retain second copy completely and correctly filled out. A $3.00 per entry
fee to the GSPCA will be required from local clubs sponsoring rating tests. This will go to the
general fund to defray the expenses associated with sponsoring the rating test program. This
donation must be received before result forms can be processed.
B. Requirements
1. Ratings chairperson and secretary must be members of the GSPCA.
2. The rating secretary of each GSP Club desiring to conduct such Rating Tests shall make a written request to the GSPCA Water Test Administrator on official forms supplied by him/her.
3. Each request will be postmarked a minimum of thirty (30) days prior to the first day of the proposed tests.
4. The local club shall recommend one or more individuals to represent the GSPCA for the purpose of witnessing the tests.
5. Two judges are required and shall be selected by the local club rating test committee; and shall be in good standing with the AKC. Judges starting a stake must judge all dogs in that stake. It is highly desirable that both judges be persons experienced with our breed, and our rating tests



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program. However, when impossible to arrange, the committee should be sure that at least one of
the judges had these qualifications.

Sponsoring club members may judge a rating test for their club only if they have previously
judged GSPCA rating tests and/or AKC field trials and/or AKC hunting tests, or at least one
judge must qualify as above. Neither judge, nor any member of their immediate family nor any
person living in the same household may either own or coown any dog for which he/she will act
as judge.
6. Any change in judging from the original application requires notification to the National Office.
7. Each request shall include:
a. Date or Dates with the starting time of first event.
b. Exact location
c. Names of judges and brief qualifications.
d. Types of birds to be used.
e. Names of club rating test chairperson, rating test secretary, and GSPCA representative.
8. No dog is permitted to practice on the rating test grounds on the day of the rating test.
9. No dog may be judged for a rating while under judgement in a field trial. They may be judged for a rating at the same trial.
C. Protests, appeals, mis-tests
The sponsoring club's rating test committee and GSPCA representative shall have the authority to decide upon any problems arising during the testing time. These decisions must be made in accordance with these GSPCA Ratings Standards most current revision.
In the case of mis-tests, the dog shall be passed over, and brought up to be retested later the same day.
SECTION V- Retrieving ratings
A. Requirements for retrieving dog tests.
1. Recognized game birds, ducks, or pigeons must be used for the NRD, RD, RDX tests. Whichever
Is selected must be used throughout the stake for all dogs entered in that stake. A freshly killed bird shall be used for each NRD entrant.
2. Dead or shackled birds may be used for the RD and RDX test. But at least one live bird per dog
must be shot in each test. Dead bird required for NRD.
3. At each station where a live bird is shot the bird thrower should be backed by at least two gunners.
The judges are to arrange the gunners stations depending on the test. On double or triple retrieves,
the birds are to be dropped from separate stations.
4. Novice dogs may be worked upwind. In RD or RDX stakes dogs should be worked across or
downwind to show ability to work and hunt.
5. If, in a judges' discretion, a bird is declared to be out of bounds, the dog should be passed over
and another dog run before the former dog returns for judgment. Bird can float out of bounds only
one (1) time due to drifting and dog not entering the water to complete the retrieve in all tests.
6. Handling is permissible in all tests, but overhandling either voice or whistle, shall be penalized at
the judges' discretion.
7. If on a water retrieve the dog reduces the time required to complete the retrieve by the intelligent
use of land, he shall not be penalized. Use of land for the mere purpose of avoiding water will be
penalized.
8. Calibers of gun used in all tests shall be .20 gauge or larger shotguns or .22 caliber blank cartridges (.22 caliber crimp not allowed.) A blank gun may be used solely in the NRD test.
However, at least one shotgun must be fired in the RD and RDX tests.
9. Objects may not be thrown to encourage a dog to enter water or to direct dog. This is a
disqualification in any stake.
10. All shots to be fired AFTER bird is released or thrown and in the air in all retrieving tests.







Page 3

NRD- Novice Retrieving Dog
A. Requirements for dogs competing for NRD's shall be as follows:
1. Water Retrieve
a. Dog is required to retrieve a single dead bird in the water with a minimum swim of 20 yards, a shot will be fired. At judges' discretion, a bird drifting more than 40 yards from shore may be declared "out of bounds," and be re-thrown. See #6 above.
B. Scoring- All scoring is on a pass/fail basis according to the official result forms.
C. Procedures


1. A circle of rope, hose, or other material is to be laid out with a radius of six (6') feet (12' diameter) clearly defining boundaries, circle must come no closer than three feet (3') from water's edge. Handler must remain within the circle until the retrieve is completed. Dog must deliver bird to circle.
2. No dog may be sent to retrieve until the bird has hit the water and handler has been directed to send dog by judges.
3. Steadiness on line is not required, and dog may be restrained by: 1) holding dog; 2) holding collar; 3) both 1 and 2; and 4) leashing dog.
4. Disqualifications
a. Hardmouthing (both judges must declare the bird unfit)
b. Excessive delay of over two(2) minutes to enter water.
c. Loses interest, wanders around aimlessly, or up and down waters edge.
d. Refuses handlers commands to handle, over six(6) times.


NRD - WATER


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 40 yards maximum - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 20 yards minimum - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -





Handlers circle, 6 ft. radius
(12 ft. diameter)
"3 ft. from edge of handler's circle to waters edge.



RD- Retrieving Dog
A. Requirements for dogs competing for RD shall be as follows:
1. Water Retrieve
a. The dog is required to retrieve a wide-spaced (approximately 60 degrees angel) double through eight (8) decoys, with the falls being at distances of approximately 50 yards on the first fall through decoy, and 20 yards on the second fall.
b. Dog must enter water promptly.
B. Scoring- All scoring is on a pass/fail basis according to the official result forms.


Page 4

C. Procedures
1. A circle of rope, hose, or other material is to be laid out with a radius of six (6') feet (12' diameter) clearly defining boundaries. Circle must come no closer than three feet (3') from water's edge. Handler must remain within the circle until all the retrieves are completed.
Dog MUST retrieve TO HAND.
2. No dog may be sent to retrieve until the last bird has hit the ground/water and the handler has been directed to send dog by judges.
3. The dog shall be steady on the line (controlled break allowed). Touch to release permitted, but restraint not permitted. Controlled break allowed means "Voice and/or hand signal may be used to stop dog, however, dog must have all four feet inside the circle to be defined as being under control."
4. Disqualifications
a. Hardmouthing (both Judges must declare bird as unfit.)
b. Excessive delay of over two (2) minutes to enter or reenter the water.
c. Loses interest, wanders around aimlessly, or up and down water edge.
d. Refuses handler commands to handler, over five (5) times.
e. Performance so bad, judge would not take hunting.


RD - WATER
(Ist Bird 50 yards)




(2nd bird 20 yards)


Handlers circle, 6 ft. radius (12 ft. diameter)
3 ft. from edge of handler's circle to water's edge.


RDX- Retrieving Dog Excellent
A. Requirements for dogs competing for RDX shall be as follows:
1. The dog shall give a finished performance, showing both class and style while competing for this title.
a. Dog will be brought to and into circle off leash and under control.
b. Handler may elect to have dog stand, sit or be downed, but the original position must be
maintained for each individual series.
c. A reasonable move of the dog to mark the fall of a bird is acceptable, but no other
movement by the dog is allowed. Controlled break is not allowed.
d. No dog may be sent to retrieve until the last bird has hit the ground/water and handler
has been directed to send dog by judges.
e. Dog must enter water immediately with eagerness.
1. Water Retrieve
a. Dog is required to retrieve to hand, a triple, first fall to be at 40 yards to one side, second fall to be a minimum of 60 yards through decoys, third fall to be 20 yards landing to opposite side as the first fall.
Example: First fall, 40 yards to right; second fall, 60 yards through decoys; third fall, 20 yards to left, (see diagram)
b. Decoys (8) to be placed between 30 yards and 60 yards in water (see diagram).


Page 5
c. Dog must enter and reenter water without hesitation. Delays to be penalized, and excessive
delays disqualified.
2. Blind Water Retrieve
a. The dog is required to be brought to the line without seeing fall. Handler is to be advised
of location of bird.
b. Dog is required to retrieve, to hand, at a range of approximately 50 yards, through eight
(8) decoys.
c. No shot will be fired for this test.
d. To be completed after triple water retrieve.
e. Dog must enter and reenter water without hesitation. Delays to be penalized, and excessive delays disqualified.
B. Scoring- All scoring is on a pass/fail basis according to the official result forms.
C. Disqualifications
1. Lack of absolute steadiness on the line.
2. Hardmouthing (both Judges must declare the bird unfit).
3. Handler must not move from the circle.
4. Excessive delay entering or reentering the water over two (2) minutes.
5. Handler cannot touch dog except tap to release.
6. Loses interest, wanders around aimlessly, or up and down water edge.
7. Refuse handler commands to handle, over four (4) times.

RDX - WATER

(2ND Bird, 60 yards)

decoys

decoys (1st Bird, 40 yards)


(3rd Bird, 20 yards)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - shore

Handlers circle, 6 ft. radius (12 ft. diameter)
3 ft. from edge of handler's circle to water's edge.

RDX - BLIND

_________(Bird)________
50 yards

decoy decoy
decoy
decoy decoy
decoy
decoy decoy



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -shore


Handlers circle, 6 ft. radius (12 ft. diameter)
3 ft. from edge of handler's circle to water's edge.
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