AKC Hunt Test Question

AKC, CKC, KC, ANKC, UKC, ENZI, etc. testing.

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Postby Greifdogs » Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:36 am

Absolutely agree Steve!!!! Be positive!!! Just like in judging a field trial, you are looking for the best dogs, not the ones that have followed the guidelines written, but the ones that you would want to own and would be proud to hunt over with your best million dollar client. We are trying to improve breeds, yes, even in Hunting Tests. Consider style even though the rule book doesn't consider it much. Consider where the dog hunted and how the dog hunted, not that he was dead broke on his find on the horse path. Consider if the dog is worthy of being copied, in his or her get. If the dog is a pig, don't give him a passing score. NO PIG finds birds in a wild bird situation. Consider all the crap the dog stood through with his bracemate and still had style, class, and manners. Consider all the negatives thrown at him, but consider the fact that he maintained. As was said, leave the rule book in your pocket. If you don't know class birddog the rule book ain't gonna help you. Take your dog hunting and you might learn something from the dogs.

On picking judges, if one has never passed a MH or put a FC on his OWN DOG, then don't have him judge. If a person has not wild bird hunted, then don't ask him to judge. If his idea of being a "trialer" is sitting at camp and telling everyone how much he knows, but you've never seen him ride a brace, don't ask him to judge. If a person has owned two HOF dogs, but wrote a check each month, DON'T ask him to judge.

Simple as that. Tangent over and done!!!
GSPs for hunting and trialing
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Postby Tony » Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:50 am

One of the advantages of AKC trials and test is that the judges are listed on the premium. If you know who is judging, and you don't value their opinion, don't pay for it by entering your dog.
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Postby CherrystoneWeims » Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:50 pm

Tony wrote:One of the advantages of AKC trials and test is that the judges are listed on the premium. If you know who is judging, and you don't value their opinion, don't pay for it by entering your dog.


Yep! I will never enter a test judged by either one of these judges again. When I have told others about the attitude of the senior of the two judges a couple of people said that they had also noticed the poor attitude towards female handlers.
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Postby Bruce Schwartz » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:19 pm

If a person has owned two HOF dogs, but wrote a check each month, DON'T ask him to judge.


What's a HOF dog?
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Postby Bruce Schwartz » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:32 pm

Related question. I worked with a pro trainer last weekend and he had several NAFC and NFC dogs he'd trained (GSPs). I asked if this was the all breed, all age thing and he said it was Gun Dog Stakes. Are there Gun dog stakes, open-all age stakes, breed specific trials, and do they all get to have the title of NAFC or FC, etc. ? What are the various AKC trials?
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Postby yawallac » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:36 pm

What's a HOF dog?


A really good one! :D

(Psssssst, Hall of Fame).
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Postby mngsp » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:45 pm

On picking judges, if one has never passed a MH or put a FC on his OWN DOG, then don't have him judge. If a person has not wild bird hunted, then don't ask him to judge. If his idea of being a "trialer" is sitting at camp and telling everyone how much he knows, but you've never seen him ride a brace, don't ask him to judge. If a person has owned two HOF dogs, but wrote a check each month, DON'T ask him to judge.


#1, there might be a few exceptions to this one, but very, very few.
#2 Absoulutely a must!!!!
#3&4 100% Agree
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Postby larue » Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:07 pm

in the shorthair world there is a nfc in all age,open gundog,am champion.
and a walking am gundog.A play on words,the am horseback event is not called a gundog,but is judged on gundog standards.
There is also the akc national pointing dog championship.
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Hunt Test & FT Judging

Postby Steve Anker » Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:16 am

- just a word on the differences-

Hunt Tests run against a standard- a checklist if you will,
prescribed regimen to be scored accordingly with an ultimate pass or fail.
(I tell folks all the time, don't sweat the scores-only thing that matters is if you get the orange satin)

Hunt Test judges need a seminar/apprenticeship to "get their button".
Experience/placements/titles are not required- (most unfortunate)
Personally I'd like to see sweeping changes in this area.-my pet peeve.

Field Trialing runs against the backdrop of that same standard, nuts and bolts wise with differences in run and application, but ultimately the "COMPETITORS" vie for the WIN to earn points toward a Title- so like the "HIGHLANDER- THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE". Judging style is subjective as well, based on what that particular judge likes to see-

Some big differences between American Field Trialing and AKC Trialing as well-

Field Trial Judges- AKC wise- need broke dog placements/written test/seminar requirements to qualify-

again, it's up to the hosting Club/organization to seek and supply quality Judges for their event.

just stating the painfully obvious
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Postby mngsp » Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:30 am

Steve

The qualifications for becoming am AKC HT judge is even simpler than you state. All that is truely required is that a perspective judge be in good standing with the AKC, that's it!

In this area we have a new judge starting this fall that hasn't been to a seminar or apprenticed. The club felt he was qualified from experience, training and handling his own MH, having this same dog needing only 2 more points for his FC (all owner handled), wild bird hunter, and gunning for HT for years.

I too wish that the AKC would require a bit more in becoming a HT judge. A club member got into it with a new member recently, who attended a seminar and thus was given a judges number, about this newbie judging events. I'm not even sure if he has ever finished a JH dog or not, haven't seen him at too many events. The new guy was dead set that he should be able to judge our HT becasue he has a "judges number".

The AKC now is also requiring an apprenticeship for new FT judges, at the stake or higher than what you will be judging. This is in addition to the self administered test, placement requirement, and seminar.

Good judges sure can make the difference between a good event and a less than good one. Clubs need to make darn sure they have a good judges panel.
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Postby Steve Anker » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:57 am

The qualifications for becoming am AKC HT judge is even simpler than you state


Yep! 'Didn't want to bumm everyone out about Judging AKC HT's
with ALL the painful details-

it irks me to think that at times a fella/lady is Judging a stake they have never qualified/titled a dog,

speakin' as a HT/FT Judge myself-

things will change for the better, eventually-
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Postby CherrystoneWeims » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:28 am

mngsp wrote:Steve

The qualifications for becoming am AKC HT judge is even simpler than you state. All that is truely required is that a perspective judge be in good standing with the AKC, that's it!

In this area we have a new judge starting this fall that hasn't been to a seminar or apprenticed. The club felt he was qualified from experience, training and handling his own MH, having this same dog needing only 2 more points for his FC (all owner handled), wild bird hunter, and gunning for HT for years.

I too wish that the AKC would require a bit more in becoming a HT judge. A club member got into it with a new member recently, who attended a seminar and thus was given a judges number, about this newbie judging events. I'm not even sure if he has ever finished a JH dog or not, haven't seen him at too many events. The new guy was dead set that he should be able to judge our HT becasue he has a "judges number".

The AKC now is also requiring an apprenticeship for new FT judges, at the stake or higher than what you will be judging. This is in addition to the self administered test, placement requirement, and seminar.

Good judges sure can make the difference between a good event and a less than good one. Clubs need to make darn sure they have a good judges panel.


You are right. Good judges can make a difference in the entries for future events also.

I would say that the first guy you mentioned is well qualified having run and trained a Master dog plus gunning for the events. He should attend a seminar ASAP.

The second guy is just like the one that I mentioned who should never be judging.

One of the things mentioned in a seminar is that judges are not there to look for failure. I see that in some judges.
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Postby parshal » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:49 am

I've often wondered why other organizations haven't followed the NAVHDA model for approving judges. NAVHDA judges, for the most part, are consistent and definitely experienced. The only reason I can imagine is that there are far too many tests/trials that need judges and the NAVHDA model would certainly reduce the number of judges available.
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Postby Steve Anker » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:21 am

why other organizations haven't followed the NAVHDA model for approving judges. NAVHDA judges, for the most part, are consistent and definitely experienced.


AMEN!
NAVHDA weeds out the semi-serious and the non committal with their arduous process. KUDOs to 'em

They should give those fellas a Gold Watch (or something) AFTER they qualify as a Judge,
the apprentice program is intense,
they get treated like a Redheaded Stepchild while apprenticing,
under constant review, with a report filed by the Senior after each test-
they seem more nervous than the Handlers at times-

NAVHDA Judging is the template for others to follow for sure-
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Postby mngsp » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:53 pm

I have some issues with NAVHDA but agree that the program thye have for developing judges is to be commended in throughout the entire dog world.
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