Deer hunting and Ridgebacks????

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Deer hunting and Ridgebacks????

Postby Bigshrimp » Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:46 pm

I'll start this post off by saying that I've never hunted deer before but will probably hunt them for the first time this season.

While reading one of my dog breed books I came across a breed that I've always admired - the Rhodesian Ridgeback. The book stated that the Ridgeback was used in its native South Africa to hunt big game by trailing them but without tongue.....does anyone see a use for Ridgebacks trailing and stalking deer?? Or is this method of hunting completely out of place in a forest??
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Postby Hank » Mon Jul 14, 2003 2:35 pm

I don't know how things work in Ontario but here in the states it is illegal to hunt deer with a dog. Most hunters I know will shoot a dog they see running deer. Back in the old days in Europe dogs were used regularly to run down deer. Dogs like the irish wolfhound and the scottish deer hound were bred as sight hounds that would run a deer until it was exhausted so that the hunter could then walk up and shoot it. I don't know about ridgebacks but it was a common way of hunting way back when. That's why these dogs were bred for stamina and speed. Other dogs such as the greyhound and the whippet were also used this way originally.
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Postby Bigshrimp » Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:53 pm

It is legal to hunt game birds, rabbit, racoon, deer and bear with dogs in Ontario(probably other game as well but I don't want say since I'm not 100% sure).

Hank, you commented on running deer with hounds (either scent or sight hounds).....what I'm talking about is stalking deer. From the information that I have about the Ridgeback it states that they hunt mainly by scent (like every other scent hound) but they DON'T BARK when hunting (the book said it was due to the type of game that they hunt in Africa). Since they don't bark I was wondering what people thought about using a Ridgeback to find the deer by scent (without the deer's knowledge) then getting close enough for a shot.
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New Zealand

Postby ano » Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:53 pm

I have heard that they use the Vizsla to point not run deer in New Zealand. If this is true I am sure they use other versatile dog breeds as well.
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Postby Bigshrimp » Mon Jul 14, 2003 5:36 pm

Actually, I just read some of the posts in the General Discussion forum under "Real Differences Between GSP and GWP". On page 6, Margaret wrote:

"Lets, see. Thirty years ago when I got into dogs and hunting there were Weimaraner imports from Germany, long coat too, and these dogs were bred particularly for the deer stalkers. In NZ it was I reckon very much like the Germans hunted way back. The dogs don't run after the deer, they stay beside the hunter and indicate the scent or presence of the deer, and after the shot they were used to track a wounded lost deer.
They were also used for bird hunting ideally suiting the heavier cover as they were closer ranging dogs, and they did their share of duck retrieving too. "


This verifies that this type of hunting can be done (as ANO said with Vizsla's). I would love to know how it is done??

What kind of habitat can it be done in (fields, forests, etc.)?

How much training goes into it?

Can you use the same dog for bird and fur hunting?

How close can you get to the deer (archery range??)?

Any websites that talk about this?


I would love to hear from anyone who knows about or has done this type of hunting :D
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Re: Deer hunting and Ridgebacks????

Postby Margaret » Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:22 pm

Bigshrimp wrote:I'll start this post off by saying that I've never hunted deer before but will probably hunt them for the first time this season.

While reading one of my dog breed books I came across a breed that I've always admired - the Rhodesian Ridgeback. The book stated that the Ridgeback was used in its native South Africa to hunt big game by trailing them but without tongue.....does anyone see a use for Ridgebacks trailing and stalking deer?? Or is this method of hunting completely out of place in a forest??


I think you will find the work of the Rhodesian Ridgeback as a hound is not similar to that of a pointing dog for stalking deer.

Here I found a site that has a book on the subject, and another UK site that that has a little bit about deer stalking.

http://www.deer-uk.com/dogs_for_deer_1.htm

http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/Deerstu ... 708920.stm
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Postby Hunter » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:40 pm

Despite what some people believe, there are some states in the US that does allow the use of dogs for deer hunting. Generally scent hounds are used. I think it sounds like fun and would love to give it a try. Unfortunately I live in a state where it is not "proper" to deer hunt with dogs. It is too bad that close-minded people can dictate what the "proper" way to hunt is.

Bigshrimp,
Are you picturing the ridgeback trailing a deer with you close behind the dog and getting a shot? If so, I don't think you will be very effective. No matter how quiet the dog is, the deer is going to know he is there long before you are able to get a shot.

Dogs could be quite effective in a "drive" for deer. This would be geared more for the gun than archery. I would expect the deer to be moving quite fast when they come out of the drive.

Usually the versatile bird dog breeds are used for the recovery of a wounded deer, not in the actual "hunt".

Are you planning to use a gun or bow? Is there snow on the ground? How many people will be hunting with you? How big of an area are you going to hunt in?
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Postby Bigshrimp » Wed Jul 16, 2003 8:26 am

Thanks for the comments Hunter. I originally posted this message with the thought that if a quiet scent hound (ie. Ridgeback) could find a deer's scent trail without running all the deer within a 100 mile radius that it would give the hunter (ie. Me) a better chance of at least getting in the area of where the deer are as opposed to trampling through the bush for hours trying to find deer prints :x If the dog started sniffing really hot scent, I was thinking that you could put it on a stay or tie it to a tree while you quietly checked the area.

8) HOWEVER, everything has changed after reading the article that Margaret left for us! People all along have been using our veratile dogs in an even more versatile manner! I did not realize that they would point deer....I would imagine that obedience training is the key for deer stalking so that after the dog points or is asked to stay, that it will obey for what could possibly be a long time.....without chasing the deer when it goes bounding off after being shot (or missed :roll: ).

I am truly excited with these developments.....one dog (or two for the company :wink: ) that can do it all with you.....true versatility! :D
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deer dogs

Postby Feist » Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:23 pm

I have hunted quail, rabbit, deer, coon and squirrel with dogs. Good deer dog will go hunting jump and run a deer all day. Open on track. They don't catch the deer just keep him moving so that he may come by the hunter. Deer doesn't have to be on the constant run to stay ahead of a hound that is open on track. I don't see how a silent dog on deer would work cause you would have no idea where the dog was. Much of the fun is listening to the dogs and not necessarily the killing of the deer. What gets a lot of folks hooked is coon hunting with good hounds. I get my kicks now squirrel hunting with treeing feists.
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Postby Hank » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:38 am

What states allow you to hunt deer with a dog? I always thought it was illegal accross the board. However, it does sound like fun to have them drive the deer for you. I wouldn't train a bird dog to do this though. You'd be out bird hunting and the next thing you know the dog is running deer. You'd be better off getting a second dog that does only that.
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Postby Bigshrimp » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:38 am

The key is VERSATILE :wink:

It probably takes a bit more obediance training to get a bird dog to stalk deer but it looks like it can be done! Check out Margaret's webpage....there's an article that talks about a hunter who uses his Vizsla to bird hunt and stalk deer: http://www.trader.co.nz/versatiledogs/a ... jadeer.htm

Imagine a dog (or dogs if you're really good!) that could hunt birds, hunt rabbits, retrieve, stalk deer, blood track.......talk about a hunting partner!!

It can be done....from what I understand, in Germany they ALSO train them in protection! 8)

I don't know how they would know whether to hunt birds or deer? It has been suggested that your whole hunting behaviour might let them know: clothes, gun, method of hunting, area that you hunt??
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Postby Hank » Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:30 pm

Bigshrimp,

That is a good point but, from what I've been told, if you want a versatile bird dog to hunt fur you'd better get them steady on birds first and that can take several years. I wouldn't try to do both simultaneously. I would like to run my dog on rabbits eventually but I won't try it until she is completely bird trained.

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Postby Margaret » Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:29 am

Hank wrote:Bigshrimp,

That is a good point but, from what I've been told, if you want a versatile bird dog to hunt fur you'd better get them steady on birds first and that can take several years. I wouldn't try to do both simultaneously. I would like to run my dog on rabbits eventually but I won't try it until she is completely bird trained.

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You are quite right Hank. We have, well we had until rabbit haemorraghic (pardon my spelling) fever was released, lots of bunnies here.
They are a big problem with the dogs. Some novices go rabbit hunting with their pup prior to the gamebird season, and bingo - they have a dog that is fixated on fur and runs about with its nose glued to the ground.

It is very important that the dog be worked on birds, and discouraged from rabbits for it's first season at least.
The dog must be trained not to chase rabbits. Mine have always been a problem, for this I had my best success with an e-collar. I can tell you at that time in our best quail area we would see a dozen rabbits on the hunt.
Rabbits and hare are such a temptation for a dog to chase. It is not so bad if the dog has a brief chase and returns, but in the chase they can disturb the quail we are hoping to find.

The best way to hunt rabbits is for the dog to be fully trained (e-collar) not to chase, but can point them for you to shoot OR the dog is at heel and the rabbit is shot from distance with .22 and the dog just used to retrieve it.

Also, something I have learnt. Whatever game your pup finds/hunts for the first 12 months (or so) is the game that your dog will be most interested in for ever. Or am I talking crud?

As for deer, you do need a calm owner oriented dog to be of use for deer stalking. I have another article to go on my site, it features a young puppy that learnt deer from the word "go".
Take my GSP now and go deer stalking and it would not be at all easy, and probably non profitable, as they are used to hunt quail and pheasant and they are independant (like most GSP). I watch my hunting buddies Vizsla and she is very "cat footed" and likes to be in contact with him.
I am always nagging my dogs back in the cover we hunt.
Don't think for one minute I am saying his dog is a boot licker, she is a good bird dog and they have more success with less hassle :D then I.
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early conditioning

Postby blathens » Sat Jul 19, 2003 8:01 am

What Margaret said about what pups are introduced to in their first 12 months is what they will have a lifelong interest in applies to people as well. I have found that people with the most passion for hunting and dogs are the ones that were introduced to it as youngsters. It is important to introduce your children and even children from non hunting parents to hunting and dogs in order to preserve the passion for the sport.

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Postby Rick Hall » Sat Jul 19, 2003 6:25 pm

Hank, Louisiana is the only one I can speak for with authority, but I imagine most, if not all, Southeastern states permit deer hunting with hounds at and in certain times and places. Not nearly as effective as some might think, but a fine and fun old Southern tradition all the same, that some would have one believe is the only way to kill deer in big swamp areas.
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