Terriers Pretty cool

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Terriers Pretty cool

Postby bill10979 » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:26 pm

Hicntry will like this. Go to Tara-(airedale) also the Irish x is a nice looking dog-what is ADBA? Maybe a pit? through us dog breeders assoc?

Nice staghounds too. If I lived out west, even AZ like my sister Id own one or 2. Looks like fun.

http://www.terriergirl.com/staghounds.php
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Postby Wolfgang » Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:37 am

ADBA is american dogbreeders association :!:
The registry of american Pitbullterriers :wink:
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Postby hicntry » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:49 am

Bill, Laurie had two of my dogs when she was with the Fish and Wildlife in Washington. She then met Steve and moved to Idaho. Steve, does not like airedales so she sold the two from me to bear hunters. Steve could never train an airedale. He likes a dog that does what he wants when he wants. He likes a dog to walk with him. That is something my dogs don't do. Tara is one of Southern's dogs out of NM. A tad more dependent and willing to stay with Steve when walking. She was run over.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Postby bill10979 » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:33 am

Hicntry-why is it, every time I have some US hunting/working airedales, they all come from your kennel??!!!

Could I ask you a few ??s-as the "whisker"dogs(DDs,RSs,Terriers) have grown on me and am trying to learn more.
Are yours heat sensitive, more so than a hound on a long extended chase?

What kind of a priority is coat for you, do you breed for density and not the open fluffy coats.
Have you ever worked yours at a hog bay competition? Looks kinda fun, how the hell do they judge the dogs though?
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Postby bill10979 » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:34 am

Hicntry-why is it, every time I have some US hunting/working airedales, they all come from your kennel??!!!

Could I ask you a few ??s-as the "whisker"dogs(DDs,RSs,Terriers) have grown on me and am trying to learn more.
Are yours heat sensitive, more so than a hound on a long extended chase?
Have you ever worked yours at a hog bay competition? Looks kinda fun, how the hell do they judge the dogs though?
What kind of a priority is coat for you, do you breed for density and not the open, fluffy coats.
Thanks and happy hunting.
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Postby hicntry » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:39 pm

"Hicntry-why is it, every time I have some US hunting/working Airedales, they all come from your kennel??!!!"

Gee Bill, I don't really know. :lol: :lol:

"Are yours heat sensitive, more so than a hound on a long extended chase?"

They are more tolerant of heat than many of the big , broad chested dogs. Through selective breeding, I have got tall, very deep narrow chested dogs. Lots of surface area for heat dissipation. It is hot and steep here in Central Cal. Heavy chested dogs heat up to quick. When and Airedale heats up, he quits which is good. Now, if I was a cold water duck hunter, I would select just the opposite. I would want the powerful, thick front for swimming and heat retention. Mine are powerful and well spread in, the rear....narrow in the front....they are running dogs.

" Have you ever worked yours at a hog bay competition?"

Never Happen Bill. These are hunting dogs. They do everything from start to finish. Bay pens serve only one purpose and that is to make it a spectator sport. Any dog can find a hog in a 1 acre enclosure. It only tests the baying. Unfortunately, bay pens only show the worst side of a big game dog, doesn't show the tracking ability, the persistence, the knowledge of how to stop a hog or how to handle multiple hogs. It only show the phase when the aggression is at it's highest. It shows dogs getting cut up, it shows hogs getting their ears tore off. In general, it portrays everything in a bad light to the public. Besides, when my dogs get hurt, it is the real deal, don't need an audience for that.

"What kind of a priority is coat for you, do you breed for density and not the open, fluffy coats."


Coats are cosmetic and don't make the dog. I have some soft coats and some hard coats. I don't like the soft coat and gradually work to improve it but the quality of the dog is first. I clip them all when hunting so the coat isn't the end of the world unless you are showing the dog in conformation. I do like a tight, hard coat, but, I like no back up, alpha type dogs a lot better. I don't want to see any of my dogs cur out when things are really rough. That is what a good terrier is like.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Postby bill10979 » Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:38 pm

Hicntry,
Dont know if you know this or not, but in Germany, the Dale is one of 9 recognized working dogs for SCH. Occasioanly I read the working Dale column, have for years. This one detail it well at the bottom of the Dale in Germnay. Kind of long-I speedread-but its good stuff.
http://www3.telus.net/airedales/newsletters/mar2003.htm
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Postby hicntry » Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:05 pm

Seems I read that a few years back Bill. Clint no long writes for Full Cry. Kevin still writes the column....unfortunately.
Bob McLellan lives in Ft. Jones Ca. We have been hunting a few times together. He has 2 of my dogs. And yes, then there is Martin Reinholt. his slickie didn't cut the mustard in schutzhund and he now has two of them. What a piece of work he is.
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Postby KYgsp » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:14 am

hicntry wrote:"Hicntry-why is it, every time I have some US hunting/working Airedales, they all come from your kennel??!!!"


" Have you ever worked yours at a hog bay competition?"

Never Happen Bill. These are hunting dogs. They do everything from start to finish. Bay pens serve only one purpose and that is to make it a spectator sport. Any dog can find a hog in a 1 acre enclosure. It only tests the baying. Unfortunately, bay pens only show the worst side of a big game dog, doesn't show the tracking ability, the persistence, the knowledge of how to stop a hog or how to handle multiple hogs. It only show the phase when the aggression is at it's highest. It shows dogs getting cut up, it shows hogs getting their ears tore off. In general, it portrays everything in a bad light to the public. Besides, when my dogs get hurt, it is the real deal, don't need an audience for that.


You must be thinking about catch dog competitions that people use pitbulls in. All the baying events I have read and heard about disqualify your dogs if they catch and hold the animal. They judge the dog or dogs on how well they hold the animal wether it be a hog or bear at bay and if they keep their attention locked on the animal. It is probably still not a very good measure of a dogs total value but it may give a person a glimpse of their prey drive and grit.
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Postby hicntry » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:55 am

Ky, yes, I pretty much lump them all together. Yes, they are disqualified if they catch....catching is still the high point and the reason everyone goes. Dogs don't really care if they are disqualified. They also NEVER allow cameras at these events. Seems baying would be pretty harmless. It's kind of like going to the auto races...they aren't supposed to have wrecks either but that is what draws the people. I don't like my dogs catching. They can get the job done without it and yet. a first timer pulled both ears off a 150lb sow. :( I would likely be disqualified anyway 50% of the time. I just find it difficult to get wrapped up in spectator sports such as field trials. I am taking two dogs back to the Nationals this year. I am going to run an 11 mo. old on their master fur. Why am I going. To show these people what fur dogs are. Their titles don't amount to anything as they are only recognized by the breed club. I am goint to be their foir siux days and I want to meet some people and watch the retrieving and flushing. These folks are very impressed with "trained" events so the holes in the dogs can be filled in. I want to see the dogs with desire....not training. They tell me I will be pleasantly surprised at the quality of the bird work. The reason so many are bringing my dogs is are to show these folks that high desire is "not" the luck of the draw. It is the breeding....and show dogs are show dogs. Now my biggest fear is that people that have my dogs steer clear of others that have my dogs. 15 alphas in a small area is bad news. I have explained this to everyone and suggested they use traffic leads instead of an 6" leash. This is the type of crowd that won't understand what is going on and think my dogs are aggressive. You see this only with top dogs, they can walk through a whole room full of show dogs and ignore them. Oh yes, it is going to be ineteresting. I will take flack to start with because one I am taking, Odin, is a 98 lb muscle. Show standards, dogs are 45 to 55 lbs.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:28 am

hicntry,
Most of the folks who are at these AKC breed gatherings really don't want the working dog that their bred standard describes. I doubt very much that the majority of the Dale owners even want a dog that does what yours do. The majority of GWP owners don't want their dogs working rabbits much less big game.

The only chance you have to keep the Dale as a real working dog is to run with other folks of the same mind. AKC clubs are always about people-almost never about the breed.
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Postby hicntry » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:57 am

Drahts, you are right on the money. People have express the fact that there is no need for my kind of dogs any more. They have expressed their thoughts as far as having a dog that is capable of the aggression with game. These people don't understand this kind of dogs because they have bred the Airedale down for so long it is only a reflection of what it once was. Their titles mean nothing as they are only recognized by the breed club. AKC won't recognize them because they are in the terrier class not the hunting class. The only purpose these titles serve is to give the illusion that a show dog is a working dog. The fur tracking event is set up so that the owner can walk with the do. Why??? Because the dogs are so loaded down with obedience, they won't go by themselves, they have no drive. The fur track is half way to being an obedience style track. I was told my dogs will be marked down if they overrun a track and have to back track. I said have at it, mark them down. My dogs track at a dead run, if you can keep up and witness the backtracking, mark em down. It is a 300 yd track through water, brush yadda, yadda, yadda. I told them I will stand right at the starting line till I hear him bark having coffee.....just like a real hunt.

I have been assured by many that I am going to really be impressed with the bird work. I hope so, but I want to see dogs with spirit. They will have the biggest turnout ever this year. There are A LOT of people coming to see me put in my place, a lot to see the ATCA faced with real fur dogs. I have made it known in the Airedale circle that all the "breeders" of working Airedale should be there to show their stuff. They are not interested. Personally, I like competition, it makes for a better class of dog IMHO. I was kidding around about joining the ATCA recently. The chairman of the Hunting/Working Committee said that I needed a sponsor and, unfortunately, sponsoring me would likely be the kiss of death for him or a number of others in the organization.. You might gather from that that there is a bit of animosity between myself and the folks putting this shindig on. Your all invited. Maybe the bird work will be a pleasant surprise to everyone, I know some of the fur tracking should be top drawer. LOL I sure hope everyone else backs out of the fur test ...do you have any idea how long it will take if everyone has to walk their dog through a 300 yd track!!! Bring chairs. LOL

I already have reservations in Newark, Oh for 6 night starting on Wed, Mar.21st, 2007. The events start on Friday the 23rd(Fur) Birds are Sat and Sunday. I understand there will be some of my dogs doing birds also. Buck is supposed to be there out of Atlanta for the water retrieveing. It should be fun and I am hoping that people will begin realize what the airedale is really capable of. The problem is not with the dog, it is with the people.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Postby bill10979 » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:10 pm

Don,
Your description of an obedience or AKC track is correct. Thats what it sounds like..nothing wrong with it, just be prepared. Im doing it now with schutzhund, a dog lifts it head up twice and youre out..must be glued to the ground, so its often food baited and incremnetally more difficult and less food. A few weeks of tracks is all it takes with
whatever command..track,sook,search, find the.. etc. for a decent dog. Usually the leash is strapped/held under the front legs to encourage a low head.

At least in our tests they let the dogs go! Results only, and offleash.
Heck, mine tracked at a dead run, overran-circled back, picked it up and had it back in a jiffee, slight deduction in nose though, becasue of this.

But this kind of tracking sounds more obedinece, schutuzhund styled. Just have em be prepared is all, like to see you guys do well.
What is it, a caged coon or dead one? Should be lots of scent either way.
Some guys like a real slow, deliberate tracker, others a fast tracker-each has its strengths. Offleash, I want a fast tracker to get to a cripple. On leash, as in a blood track, I prefer a more deliberate pace to work out a difficult track. For a "part hound" airedale-should be easy regardless.
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Postby hicntry » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:15 pm

Bill, I have gone round and round with these people over this"fur track". A coon in the tree signifies that it is a fur track. When hunting fur, it is off leash as is this one. The walking trail parallels the actual scent trail but most of the dogs will not go without the handler. I told them that speed is everything to a fur dog. The game is running....the other way!!!! I told them times should be kept on every dog for breeding purposes. They don't want that because it makes for competition. They just want a pass/ fail test. I told them if a good dog can run this test in 2 min. a dog that does it in 10 min is worthless as a fur dog. I told them if they are going to run this as a test for a fur title, it should be run like one. If they want to run it as an obedience track, call it that and forget the fur title. They can't do that because if they can walk their dogs through this track, and do birds, they get a "Versatile Title". There is a total lack of understanding hunting fur because they don't do it. What separates dogs of this ilk is the dependent vs the independent dog. If they have to walk their dogs through the track, they do not have a fur dog. Seems pretty simple to me. They run a bottle scent coon track(main track) and then have a cross track put down with a live fox. They then leave the live fox sitting in a cage either 15 ft or yds off the main track to throw the dog off. I gave them fair warning they better elevate that cage well off the ground because my dogs will dismantle the cage and kill their fox. I don't want my dogs breaking their teeth dismantling that cage. Before I take the dogs back their I will let them have a few of the coons at the end of the track. That should keep them on the right track because Airedales hunt for the fight at the end. They are not like hounds. If they know the bottle scent will lead to a coon fight, that is what they will take. I don't plan on leaving the start line until the dog barks treed. They don't know that all fast trailing dogs will over run the track, back up and go again. My intentions is not to pass the test, it is to show them what fur dogs do, how fast they do it, and have fun. There are a number of folks, and dogs, I want to meet. Brisco will be there. He is a schutzhund 2 dale that has a lot of grit, plus he has several bird titles. There really is nothing to judge on real fur dogs, they take the track and they are gone. They get to the tree or they don't. That is why timing them is crucial. If there is any cross breezes and my dogs smell the coon, they will leave the track and take the straight route. They said they can live with that. If the 11 mo old dog does well, I may sell him while I am there....or put him up for sale if anyone wants to part with $5,000 to $7,500 dollars. Otherwise I will bring him home because he will be worth more at stud.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Postby DeanD » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:13 pm

Heeeeyyyy!! I Know some of you guys!! And here I thought I had found a board none of the terrier folks had discovered! :lol: I saw the title of this forum "Other Breeds and Non-Sporting Dogs", opened it up and the first thing I saw was AirDales... I thought to myself... there are a few people I know that would strongly disagree with that! :D :lol:
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