The Other terriers

Topics on non-sporting dog breeds

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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:05 am

hicntry,
I would imagine these dogs are loud - the ones that I have seen on driven hunts in Germany are loud on trail. Several cornered a young boar about 100 yds from my stand, circled and tryed to latch on (we all eneded up splitting the vet bills).

From my experience, I would have difficulty recommending this breed (and many small Terriers) as good pet/family prospects. They are not for everyone by a longshot.
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Postby hicntry » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:33 am

I have friends that have the larger "Americanized" version. I like them but, like many of the small terriers, they are hardwired and it takes a special temperament in the owner. I don't have that special temperament personally. I have also found hunting with small dogs too limiting. I have heard a small dog is as fast as a big one, more agile and all that it it isn't true. That can be seen as soon as you see them behind bigger running game. We both know the Germans hunt hogs a lot different than we do. It is more of a herding proccess....and as you said....shooting from stands. While I do like the ones I have seen, and to hear the tales about them being able to do anything, but I try to keep it in perspective. I have had numerous call from folks that work these dogs and they are looking for more dog in an airedale to keep 25lb coyotes from dining on the little guys. I agree, they are a remarkable 20lb dog.....but they are still a twenty lb dog. Patts are another terrier that is hardwired and maybe more so in certain areas but they are no where as versatile as the jagds.
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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:24 pm

I guess a coyote could dine on a JT, but I'm not sure a coyote wants to work that hard for a meal. Of course, any dog is road kill if 2-3 coyote get together, just as soon as they have spilled the dogs entrails out on the ground.
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Jagds

Postby bill10979 » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:37 pm

"The way hogs are hunted with jagds is by tracking the pigs down then they chew on the gentials to make the pig sit down."

Hate to be that pig. Ow.
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Jagds

Postby bill10979 » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:48 pm

"I have friends that have the larger "Americanized" version. I like them but, like many of the small terriers, they are hardwired and it takes a special temperament in the owner. I don't have that special temperament personally. "

And here we thought you were Mr. Laidback, Hicntry. Cool, calm and collected! A little 20 lb dog gets on your nerves.. no way.

Ive never seen a Jagd personally, they sound like a neat small dog except All terriers Ive seen were just too wired, except Dales and Pits. Welsh, Fox, Kerrys,Irish-just way too much energy, drive and attitude. Id love a small dog for companion/squirrel hunting/guard dog for the car-(I have a habit of leaving it running) but it would have to be ultra calm. Dont know if they make one like that. Its why I love my DD.
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Postby cesar17 » Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:35 pm

I understand that a jagd in its natural state is very hardwired but the german basis for training this dog is the FF. Once this is achieved then you have a handle on the dog and you can channel the energy and drive. The dog sees you as the pack leader no questions asked and if hell were a hole and you sent them down it then they would do all they can to drag the devil out. If the dog is out of control then the owner has set very little or no boundaries. The difference between a true jagd and most big dogs is how they run. How do your airedales run? Most properly bred jagds double suspension gallup. Like a sight hound just a little slower. Both of mine topped out at about 35 mph. How do airedales keep the hog in one place? Its the same way 2-3 jagds can handle a coyote. I have said it before jagds are pound for pound the most versatile dog.
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the jagd is a very neat small dog but you have to use it for what is was bred for and that is hunting everything. They wouldn`t be good for what you described.
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Jagds

Postby bill10979 » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:50 am

Cesar-I dont doubt that they are fast for a small dog. JRTs look quick for short distances as well, but 35 mph might be a bit of an exaggeration, unless of course they are lurchers and crossed with greyhounds! Im sur theyre fast enough for hogs though.

Ive worked behind some very fast setters and pointers. They mightve hit 30-34 tops-thats a guess. The Average racing Greyhound runs about 37mph. Thats according to some greyhound race tracks websites I visited. This was a link to some general animal speed info-see below. All the coursing breeds are very fast-nothing is even close to a greyhound though in full stride on straightaway-except another greyhound.

-A cat can run about 12mph
The fastest dog ( a Greyhound) can reach speeds of up to 42mph
A cheetah can reach speeds of up to 70mph
A racing pigeon can reach speeds of up to 100mph
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Postby TobyTx » Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:38 pm

A cat can only reach 12? I guess thats why you never seen them in wide open areas sprinting, only short burst. Maybe thier reflexes make them seem faster.

Herding dogs are fast dogs as well. Had one that looked like a collie mix that ran along side our truck. We were pulling out and he was right along side of use. At first we at a stand still and then put on the gas untill we got to 30 and he was right thier with us. Gradually got faster and faster untill we got to a little over 40 and he was still there with us!
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Terriers

Postby bill10979 » Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:04 pm

Guys, the BS is really flying here. I think youre speedometer might need to be calibrated. Here is the Whippet link. My uncle hunts with them and crossbreds(lurchers) in Ireland. They top out around 35-37mph, and this is a true racing breed for short distances. Just because a dog can keep up doesnt mean it is going the same speed. Id think 34-35 or so is about as fast as youll get from a non coursing breed, say, leggy hounds or pointers or crossbreeds.

http://www.americanwhippetclub.net/
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Postby cesar17 » Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:04 pm

Bill
You say that a greyhound tops out at 42 but I have seen a dog that was measured mathematically at 51 mph. He was a grandson of Kunta Kinte. My family personally owned a female that was on the track for 3 years, ran grade A but won in grade B. She was measured chasing a jackrabbit at 48 mph. You have to understand sighthounds were bred to chase furred quarry not a lure. They run faster after a real animal. You have to look at how a dog runs. Jagds run the same way as a sighthound. Its called a double suspension gallup. Pointers and Setters do not run that way. One jagd we had chased down a setter that was sprinting hard and knocked the crap out of it. (we were running to get there the whole time too but it they were too fast for fat old man)Everything made for speed runs that way. 35 is a very reasonable statement. Have you ever seen a jagd or sighthound running chasing quarry? Jagds are not a sighthound by any stretch of the imagination but they are very fast. This can be seen when the standard is met and the body is perfect for how they are supposed to run.
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Postby TobyTx » Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:21 pm

I think youre speedometer might need to be calibrated


I hope your right because then I might be able to get my speeding ticket taken away! :) If i am going 40 or whatever in a car and a dog is running to the side of me then how fast is the dog going? The dog was not hanging back the whole time around the back tires trying to catch up, he was neck and neck (or neck and tire) with the front wheels. You are only guessing what pointer can run and i think you are generalizing too much. i am not saying all herding dogs or whatever are that fast but I know what I saw for that particular dog
I think cesar is right in that a dog will run faster when chasing game. I think you would be suprised by the speed you dogs will get up to when chasing say a rabbit or cat.
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Postby bill10979 » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:08 pm

Guys.. I hate to burst your bubble. Im not reciting my opinion, but researching several greyhound/coursing sites. Heres another greyhound link. The top speed ever recorded for a greyhound is 45.5mph. Next in line are whippets and salukis at 35-40mph. Double suspension or not, thats it. Id bet a Greyhound over a Jagd or a Border collie anyday, but thats just me. I doubt a greyhound knows the difference between a live animal and a Wabbit at the track. Its all the same to them and these dogs fly. Ive seen one race in FL, they flat out move. They would stop and have lunch and still beat any dog in a straightaway. Research anything you like. The best Ive come up with is 45.5mph. Prove me wrong that anydog can outrun or top speeds of this chasing anything alive or not. Fastest dog I ever owned was a trial GSP bitch-45 pounds. GSPs are bred into sled dogs and becomming very popular to add needed sustainable speed. Maybe Im conservative, but I think most fast hunting dogs top out in the low 30 mph. Science and radar guns prove this. A car sppedometer isnt the most reliable indicator. There is a variance, and the difference between 1-3 mph while racing isnt very noticable-try it in your car and see how long it takes to pass some one doing say 55 and your at 57 on cruise. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/Gee ... ckal.shtml

In the Irish countryside, these dogs are bred to put food on the table. Lurchers(greyhound/whippet/deerhound x to a border collie or pit are most common to breed "brains" in the hounds.
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Postby bill10979 » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:23 pm

Heres a GSD link dscussing gait and double suspension gallop. Only dog Ive seen run down a rabbit was a GSD dog I owned flushed by my Gsp. Some are very fast, but again not close to a greyhound. Several dogs run like this, doesnt make them nearly as fast as a courser.
http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/08 ... _Gait.html
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Postby TobyTx » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:28 pm

Id bet a Greyhound over a Jagd or a Border collie anyday

So would I.
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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Can't imagine this gait is anywhere near as fast as a dog that is pushing equally at the rear and extending at the front. I think that hicntry mentioned breeding his Dales narrower at the front so that they could propel at the rear without obstruction at the front. This is typical of the coarsing dogs. The rear is spaced wider than the front allowing free extension by both ends of the dog. I don't believe anything is faster than this.

Years back, I watched a 4 yr old GWP bitch I owned run down a jack rabbit over a disced field-the only thing that allowed the jack to escape was its ability to change direction . The dog clearly was faster-even over the uneven ground. She is not a double gaiter.
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