Of course there is a use for them Bill. They are using them for tolling coyotes. As I said earlier, they are more of a varmint dog. They can get into tighter places and are more comfortable with that size game. They just are not that big of a dog. These guys are just not satisfied with the fact they can do some things well. They are trying to make a silk puses out of sows ears. The others side is true also, my dogs will never make tolling dogs because they are big and intimidating.. I don't like my dogs catching but they do it sometimes. Smaller hogs 100 to 125lbs, will be ruined if you don't get the dogs quick. The hams, backstraps and shoulders will be bloodshot. I have also spent lots of money at the vets. A good bay job accomplishes the same thing without any injuries. You ask what I expect of my dogs. I expect them to push the game and keep them from running. Much of the time they have to get in and put the teeth to them, generally working opposite sides to keep the game turning and defending. I don't like them hanging on....that is when the get hurt. It doesn't take most long to learn that. When it comes to coyotes, coons and the such, if they stand back and bay, they are of no use to me and are out of here. They will never be able to anchor a 300lb hog and keep him from running. Mind you, there are many little dogs that can because they get in and grab the nut sack and a hig will sit right down and not move. The catch is, they have to at least have enough grit to get close enough to do it. Baying 25lb coyotes and 15lb bobcats from a distance tells me they will never get close enough to something that outweighs them by 6 times to do it. I am objective enough to see all my dogs are not the same. Winchester, Higgins, and Hunter are straight up kill dogs when it comes to small game under 40lbs. They are fast and leathal. They don't all have the same ability to kill as effectively. They crush anything they get hold of. I mentioned dogs that suffer a lot of damage to the hindquarters. These dogs have all been injured. Hogs are rough and don't climb trees. All damage has been in the face, neck, chest, front legs, and front part of the rib cage. Winchester was hooked in the hip once....they were fighting multiple hogs(we killed the four that day in the one picture) That day he was thrown 8 ft in the air, broke the two canines on the right side when he hit the ground, and was severely hooked in the stomach and had to be opened up at vets to see if the intestins were punctured. Matt says, "can I hunt my dogs with other peoples dogs?" Heck no, These guys hunt rough game and they are rough. The funny thing is, every one of these guys will love you to death here at the house.....if I am here. Other people don't want their hounds trying to do what these dogs do and they darn sure don't want them to get in a fight with them. As I said Bill, this is a result in upbringing and environment.
One thing that is a must in a big game dog is the ability to take a licking and do it again the next day. Haven't been able to really see how these redlines react because they keep a safe distance. It isn't because they are excetionally fast as they lead people into believing....it is because they don't get close enough to the game. Make no mistake though, they will jump in a dog fight.....but then again, I have seen lots of dogs that are dog aggressive that won't get near a coon. Dog fights don't show grit.
The thing that bothers me, is that they are selling a bill of goods. They have convinced many newcomers that they are throwbacks to the "old" style. You know how newbies are about anything old....it's gotta be good. What they are doing is selling a bunch of pin headed dogs with downright shiddy coats and no grit as hunting dogs and they have people believing they are getting a great, old style airedale. What would you think if you were told it is a classic DD, no facial hair or hair anywhere for that matter. And you know, the old style were better hunters. You would laugh. The reality is, very few old things are as good as what there is today. It is pipedreams. Old racehorses, racecars, greyhounds, you name it, it is improved today.
Matt made the comment that his dogs will hunt a bigger variety of game than my dogs. That should surprise everyone because my personal dogs are pretty much straight hog dogs. Others use them for just about everything....except tolling coyotes. Not exactly the same as having dogs chasing coyotes and squirrels. Any thing my dogs do, they do it on their own. They don't have to have hounds and curs there to tree bears.
I will take a lot of flack over this thread, but that is life. Just to reiterate, the redlines can hunt, track and all that, it is the grit they fall short in.
Last edited by hicntry
on Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I may not be a proctologist but I still know an a$$hole when I see one! Same is true with dogs.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"