Deutscher Wachtelhund

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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby DrahtsundBraats » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:00 pm

I have had several experiences with Wachtelhunde and I was impressed every time. They were used along with Deutsche Jagdterrier for several driven hunts that I was invited to. They worked tirelessly to keep game on the move. They were also used to bloodtrack wounded game...the handler and dog I walked behind the morning after our hunt produced a wounded Dammtier (fallow deer) after a 600 meter track through mixed terrain...the dog made it look easy. What impressed me more than anything else was the wonderful temperaments of these dogs...calm, friendly and outgoing. Whereas the DJT often have foolish sharpness, this breed seems to have intelligent sharpness...brave but not stupid.

What I have experienced has been impressive.
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Wolfgang » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:04 pm

DrahtsundBraats wrote:I have had several experiences with Wachtelhunde and I was impressed every time. They were used along with Deutsche Jagdterrier for several driven hunts that I was invited to. They worked tirelessly to keep game on the move. They were also used to bloodtrack wounded game...the handler and dog I walked behind the morning after our hunt produced a wounded Dammtier (fallow deer) after a 600 meter track through mixed terrain...the dog made it look easy. What impressed me more than anything else was the wonderful temperaments of these dogs...calm, friendly and outgoing. Whereas the DJT often have foolish sharpness, this breed seems to have intelligent sharpness...brave but not stupid.

What I have experienced has been impressive.

I can second everything said by D&B and Dave P.
I have worked with lots of Wachtels and had the pleasure to experience 2 by my self one was my uncles dog and the other my girlfriends both VERY WELL trained and used AS ALROUNDER!!!!!!
we live in an area were you can hunt everything from rabbit hare oheasant to roedeer and wildboar and I cannot think of a better breed for that type of hunting than a Wachtel hund!!
I'm sure I will get one for my self soon again!
The bad mouthing of this breed comes from totally untrained ot wrong trained dogs or those who were bought just to be unsnapped in the woods to chase boar!
poor performers are to be found in this breed as well as in any other breed and if you want a good one you need to know were to look!!!! That's the secret in all breeds! 8) :)
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby wachtelhund » Wed May 05, 2010 11:59 pm

nip158,
If you are interested in a Wachtelhund, I would be glad to provide you more information. Several DWNA breeders have litters or will have litters very soon. These are are sping litters. I don't know where you live so I'll just throw this out. Boulder Brook Kennel, Markham, VA had a litter about four weeks old, and has one pup avialable. They have solid brown Wachtelhunds.
I, Eagle river Wachtelhunds, Pelican Lake, WI; just had a litter of eight pups April 29th. Six are placed. Two are available. I have what we call schimmel Wachtelhunds. Brown with white ticking.
Blue Moon Wachtelhunds, Nine Miles Falls, WA will be having a litter due in about one to two weeks. They have Schimmels also.
All DWNA Sires and Dams have been checked for elbow and hip dysplasia and are DNA profiled. DWNA Wachtelhunds have to have normal elbows and fair or better hips for breeding. Although in practice all our breeding Wachtels have hips good or better. The DNA porfiling allows us to identify genetic issues. Dogs with health issues are removed from our breeding pools.

This is my litter bred by Kelly vom Eagle River, a third generation female from my first pair of Wachtelhunds imported fromGermany in theearly 90's. The sire was Duke von der Balthasareley, a German import:

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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby lanco » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:57 am

I realize this is a slow progressing thread but here is my two cents on my wachtel. She was sired by a dog co-owned by Dave Pepe. First any dog will run off and chase deer left to its own devices, you have to teach control. Second Ava is a great bird dog and duck retriever. i have not worked her on fur yet but she does give tongue on furred game such as chasing cats and fresh feral hog sign. In germany these dogs are used most often for forest drives on big game but some of those same dogs are then used for small game and feathers. You can look through the forum Dave linked to see some pictures of such dogs both in the US and Europe. These are very smart dogs that can learn to perform different task depending on the context and your instructions. However getting this kind of cross training accomplished takes time, patience and the right balance of positive reinforcement and correction. Ava is one of the most amazingly gentle dogs with people I have ever seen but will break ice without blinking and is extremely driven in the pursuit of game. Ava's father has successfully fought coyotes and bayed bears while still playing with Kraig Glaizier's kids and retrieving his ducks. These are dogs with a soft disposition training wise and if you try to train them using overly harsh methods they can shut down on you. However if they know what you want and disobey anyway they will take correction readily and move forward well. If you instill good basic obedience, are patient (Ava was on a check chord till around 1 year of age when loose in the field other than duck hunting) in developing your dog and can adapt your training methods a bit for this most versatile of breeds then I would think in about two years you could reasonably expect to have a dog that could quarter well, flush game birds, trail and circle bunnies, retrieve shot game to hand and track wounded deer on a leash and harness. That last point is an important example of how context and commands will matter. In the case of blood trailing you have the context of being in a tracking harness (not used for any other purpose) and the command to trail given at the last located spot of spoor.And when I say two years that would be to get all of those tasks down, I hunted Ava from the time she was 9 months old productively. Ava is a very smart very prey driven dog with an amazing nose. In addition to all this the DWNA is a pretty supportive network of people that (primarily through cyber space) reach out and help one another with training problems should they arise. Here is the link to the forum
and some pics of Ava at work. And no we were not drinking and hunting in the last pic, after 18 ducks in 1 hour my brother thought a celebratory toast at the launch (boat launches sell beer in LA) was in order.
http://www.deutscherwachtelhund.org/forums/index.php
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Sallysue » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:04 am

Dove hunted this gal at 7 months to my hand . Now she 's 15 months and doing more
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Sallysue » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:36 pm

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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Sallysue » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:37 pm

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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Sallysue » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:38 pm

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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Sallysue » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:40 pm

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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Sallysue » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:57 am

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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Wildman » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:54 pm

Hi just found out about this kind of dog was hoping some of you all could answer a few things for me most about them on big game when they are on a track do they run it until they bay it up or dive it back to the Hunter's gun I have heard both also I read that they are mint to hunt alone even on game like hogs and bear and are supposed to keep them in one spot has anyone seen them work hogs or bear and lastly if they can bay or dive a hog or bear alone how would you all think they would do working coyote and fox the same way
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby 3drahthaars » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:03 pm

Wildman wrote:Hi just found out about this kind of dog was hoping some of you all could answer a few things for me most about them on big game when they are on a track do they run it until they bay it up or dive it back to the Hunter's gun I have heard both also I read that they are mint to hunt alone even on game like hogs and bear and are supposed to keep them in one spot has anyone seen them work hogs or bear and lastly if they can bay or dive a hog or bear alone how would you all think they would do working coyote and fox the same way


Probably, what's been posted so far is about it for the DWH her in the US.

It's probably one of the most recent of the versatiles here, and Americans are still learning how to utilize them here with our styles of hunting that are sometimes and sometimes not exactly the same as in Europe.

Here they are gaining popularity as an alternative to the Boykin, I think.

Individually, I don't feel knowledgeable about their chances with boar, bear, or coyotes. I don't think they have the size of a DD or the crazy tenacity of a JT in a one-on-one encounter.

I don't know if the DWH ever got off the ground with a formal Group NA. But, their website, breeders, and members would probably be the best sources of information.

Good luck,

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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby RDJ » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:15 am

I hunt with two wachtelhunds. I am from Europe though, and it is rather difficult to discuss the use of these dogs as the hunting cultures are so different between Europe (and between countries in Europe as well in many cases) and the US, especially when it comes to dogs.

To try to explain in simply, the way the Wachtelhund is mostly used (it is a versatile breed, and is also hunted a bit differently by different hunters/regions) in its simplest form is like this: We have an area to be hunted through. A number of hunters are put on stands (tree stands etc) where they will remain throughout the hunt. Then the "dog-keepers" release their dogs, who will then search independently for game. When a fresh track is found, the dog will follow this until he finds the animal, and will then "chase" the animal while barking. He follows the tracks, not the sight of the animal, and thus the speed will be moderate. When the animal is on the move, it will hopefully pass a stand where it can be shot by the waiting hunters. If not, the dog will let the animal go after a while, and return to seek out new animals.

There are many variations to this way of hunting. They can be big or small. Sometimes with several dozens of hunters on stands and many dogs used at once, and sometimes only 1-3 stand-hunters and a single dog. The dog keepers can also either remain on stand after releasing the dog, or the can walk through the hunting area while the dogs are hunting. Generally the first option requires more independent dogs. My dogs are in this category, and usually hunt out to about 2km away from me until they return. That means that when they "chase" their game, they can keep going for a longer period of time if the chased animal is keeping close to me, but if it runs far away, the dogs will give up when they get 1,5-2km away from me. They will then return to me before they go out again to find new animals. If you really know your area well, and know where game usually choose to run when hunted by a dog, it is perfectly possible to hunt large game alone with a wachtelhund.

Several dogs CAN be used at the same time, but they will never "gang up" and chase the same animal. This is considered unethical, as they would then arouse each other and hunt harder and longer than when alone. So from puppy age, they are always taught to hunt independently.

Further, a wachtelhund will always try to get an animal to move. It does not want it to stay in its place, like a bay dog. Sometimes this is not possible, i.e. because the dog is not quite brace enough to get difficult boars moving, or sometimes simply because no matter how hard the dog tries, not all boar will choose to flee. Then baying is a "second best" option, but is generally not sought for.

Another important thing to mention, is that a wachtelhund is no hound. It will not choose to work old tracks (other than when blood trailing on leash, but this is a taught thing), and it will generally not keep the same animal for hours. Thus it is not a good dog for hunting scarce game. If you have a single bear in a huge area, I guess you do not want the dog to stop working it after 30 minutes if he first finds it.
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Wildman » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:11 am

Thanks man that kind of lines up with what little bit I know of hunting over there the main thing I was wondering is I know wild boar are one of if not the most dangerous game in Germany and even pushing to the gun let alone bay one is how a dog that small and alone would not be killed over here were people hunt them they use packs of big hounds and a lot of time the hounds are cut up petty bad if not killed i finally find a account of them being used for black bear is when sign is find the dog is put on it to see if it can be worked then they track it until they pushed it into the open that got me thinking if one can drive a bear into the open maybe they could work for us on fox witch I read was one of the game animals they worked from the start but the one that makes me wonder is the big coyotes we have I mine a black bear is bigger and more dangerous but a coyote is faster so what would you all that know about them could you see them being able to track and flush out dangerous game or would it be to good of a chance of one getting hurt or killed
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby RDJ » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:22 pm

Boar is, in many areas, the main game hunted with the wachtelhund. The task of pushing boars out of thick brush requires both sharpness courage, and it is not without risk for the dogs. There is naturally a balance though, the dogs needs some sense as well in order to function optimally. In addition we use protective vests. But yes, the good dogs are in risk of getting injured and sometimes fatalities happen. I would have no worries with using a wachtelhund for bear, other than what I stated in my previous post.

The short answer is that the wachtelhund is meant to function well on dangerous game, and a good one does. I am not familiar with coyotes, so I don´t quite want to answer this one. In some parts of Scandinavia we have problems with wolves killing hunting dogs, and a wachtelhund would certainly not have a good chance in such an encounter. But I don´t know how a coyote compares to a wolf in size and behavior. If it tends to be more fox-like than wolf-like, I would not hesitate to use a wachtelhund to hunt it.
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