Deutscher Wachtelhund

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Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby njp158 » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:21 pm

I've recently came across a breed that interests me very much, the deutscher Wachtelhund. I've read about them being referred to as German Spaniels, so I'm hoping this is the right forum to post this. I know very little about the dog except what I've been able to gather from searching the internet. Truth be told there doesn't seem to be a ton out there on this breed. I live in Ohio, and hunt upland birds whenever I can. The problem is there are a lot more rabbits and deer around me than birds. It is legal in my state to track a wounded deer with a dog. What interests me the most about this breed is that they bark, or open up when on a trail, be it a rabbit, running pheasant, wounded deer, etc., much like a beagle. I've never been much of a beagle guy, but I do like this trait, especially for chasing rabbits. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this type of dog? I have not hunted over, or even seen one in person yet. I would be looking for this dog to be both a hunting companion and a house dog and be able to get along with my GSP. Any information anyone has would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Winchey » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:18 pm

http://www.gundogmag.com/gundog_breeds/ ... index.html Thats a link to an article about the breed in Gundogmagazine, I remembered reading it a year ago and wanting one.
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby madonna » Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:01 pm

njp158 wrote:I've recently came across a breed that interests me very much, the deutscher Wachtelhund. I've read about them being referred to as German Spaniels, so I'm hoping this is the right forum to post this. I know very little about the dog except what I've been able to gather from searching the internet. Truth be told there doesn't seem to be a ton out there on this breed. I live in Ohio, and hunt upland birds whenever I can. The problem is there are a lot more rabbits and deer around me than birds. It is legal in my state to track a wounded deer with a dog. What interests me the most about this breed is that they bark, or open up when on a trail, be it a rabbit, running pheasant, wounded deer, etc., much like a beagle. I've never been much of a beagle guy, but I do like this trait, especially for chasing rabbits. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this type of dog? I have not hunted over, or even seen one in person yet. I would be looking for this dog to be both a hunting companion and a house dog and be able to get along with my GSP. Any information anyone has would be much appreciated. Thanks.


Hallo! I train many races of hunting dogs and have trained some Deutsch - Wachtel. The DW are no pointing dogs but "Stöberhunde"- that means, the chase rabbits, hare, boar, roe deer. they go very far away- a short runner is one, who is away for half an hour. a long runner ist one, that is away more than three hours. it is a dog for great forrest landscape. you can use him for blood tracking, but i think, that every "German Vorstehhund" like Weimaraner , Deutsch-Kurzhaar, Deutsch -Langhaar, Deutsch-Drahthaar is much better. on the track of living animal this dog barks. you have to have him strictly under control, because, if he is not, he will be away on every track- scent-track of an animal. If you hunt on rabbits and you will not take a DK, use a KLM- a German pointing dog with about 45 cm . Greeting madonna
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Winchey » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:14 pm

KLM is what we would call a Small Munsterlander, correct? I am getting one quite shortly and was wondering if keeping him from disappearing after rabbits and or dear is going to be an issue?
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby madonna » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:00 am

Winchey wrote:KLM is what we would call a Small Munsterlander, correct? I am getting one quite shortly and was wondering if keeping him from disappearing after rabbits and or dear is going to be an issue?



Hallo! A KLM= Kleiner Münsterländer is the smallest of the "Deutsche Vorstehhunde". His pointing is weak and comes very late- with 9 to 14 month- pointing means some seconds... but you can train it and get a fine pointing. He has to train oboedience like every pointing dog- but this is very easy, the KLM is to train as easy as a DK! I think, you did make a good choice with a KLM. He does not cover much field, he searches under the gun. Greeting madonna
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby wachtelhund » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:34 am

njp158 wrote:I've recently came across a breed that interests me very much, the deutscher Wachtelhund. I've read about them being referred to as German Spaniels, so I'm hoping this is the right forum to post this. I know very little about the dog except what I've been able to gather from searching the internet. Truth be told there doesn't seem to be a ton out there on this breed. I live in Ohio, and hunt upland birds whenever I can. The problem is there are a lot more rabbits and deer around me than birds. It is legal in my state to track a wounded deer with a dog. What interests me the most about this breed is that they bark, or open up when on a trail, be it a rabbit, running pheasant, wounded deer, etc., much like a beagle. I've never been much of a beagle guy, but I do like this trait, especially for chasing rabbits. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this type of dog? I have not hunted over, or even seen one in person yet. I would be looking for this dog to be both a hunting companion and a house dog and be able to get along with my GSP. Any information anyone has would be much appreciated. Thanks.


The Wachtelhund is a versatile gundog and will hunt anything in North America. But it is a flusher and should not be hunted with pointers. They learn real quick when a pointer is on point, that there is a bird there and will run in and flush it. You''ll end up creating a long ran flusher when instead you want them to hunt in close. If yo want more information on the Wachtelhund you can go to the Deutscher Wachtelhund North America, Inc web site, http://www.deutscherwachtelhund.org or to my personal kennel wed site Eagle River Kennels, http://www.wachtelhund.us . Most states allow you to us dogs to track wounded deer if the is under your control and on a lead. I use a 30 foot lead made of climbing rope so it does not get tangled in the bushes.

Dave Pepe
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http://www.deutscherwachtelhund.org
http://www.wachtelhund.us
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Winchey » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:55 pm

3 of the 4 grandparents of my dog scored prize 1's in the VGP test in Germany, does this test judge much in the way of pointing birds? Or is it any indicator of the natural range the dogs would work? I would appreciate any info you could give me on this test as most of what I have found is in German.
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby madonna » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:11 pm

Winchey wrote:3 of the 4 grandparents of my dog scored prize 1's in the VGP test in Germany, does this test judge much in the way of pointing birds? Or is it any indicator of the natural range the dogs would work? I would appreciate any info you could give me on this test as most of what I have found is in German.


Hallo- i do not really understand, if you mean your DK or if you have a Deutsch Wachtel.
the VGP is an utility test , who shows, that this hunting dog is an allrounder, which you can hunt on blood tracking, on independent search even on boar or roe deer, on rabbits, but also in water work, on fox, pointing and field search is only one part of this prove. the highest pointing and field search test are the IKP and Kleemann-Zuchtausleseprüfung. the VGP is a test, who is done from all kinds of Deutsche-Vorstehhunde. Mostly the judges want, that the range is not too wide, that the dog searches in the limits of one field. the field border is the border of the field search. this means: he has to search very short in a little field, show a very far ranging search in a big and wide field. the DK- judges want a more wide range then the judges of DD or Weimaraner or DL. Greeting madonna
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby Winchey » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:45 pm

no no, It is a small munsterlander. I know that it is a utility test but i was wondering how big of a deal pointing style and range of search are.
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby njp158 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:55 am

Wachtelhund,

Yes I was able to determine from my searches they were a flushing breed. I did not plan to hunt him at the same time as my gsp, but rather just meant how they got along as a house dog with other dogs in the house and maybe even children. This dog will primarily be a hunting companion and not a pet, but I just wanted to make sure it would be able to get along with my living arrangements and not need to be kenneled outside.

Everyone, thanks very much for all the useful information.
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby madonna » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:52 pm

Hello- yesterday we had a hunt on boars- i think, i showed this to you in a thread. My Don was great. I met a owner of a young DW- he was at home. I asked, why he did not hunt his dog. His answer: "I do not want again to search for him some hours..." These dogs are very often "weitJager"- long distant runners.... only for great reserves with many boars and roe deer to chase a good dog. - the original DW- i can not tell, how the american DW is. Greeting madonna
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby njp158 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:48 pm

Wachtelhund,

Would you be able to comment on the range of your dogs?
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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby wachtelhund » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:10 pm

njp158,
Wachtelhunds make great pets and do very well in the house. However, we sell them only as hunting dogs and never for pets. Our motto both here in North America and in Germany is, "bred by hunters for hunters". The Deutscher Wachtelhund North America (DWNA), Inc. is our breed club in the United States and Canada. I'm a Wachtelhund breeder and the Chairman of Deutscher Wachtelhund North America, Inc. The Wachtelhund is a flusher, but still a versatile gun dog that will any type of game: feathered or fur, small or large game, game or predators; including blooding wounded game. Wachtelhunds are very intelligent and will learn very quickly the type of hunting you want them to do. In Europe, they use them for various types of hunting, including drive hunts for big game. There, the Wachtelhund will hunt indepentendly moving and circling game to its master or other shooters. They are also expected to hunt in close within shotgun range. The expression, "These dogs are very often "weitJager"- long distant runners", is actually used in the wrong context. The Wachtelhund has a nose very close to a blood hound and will trail game for great distances, but unlike hounds they can be called off. In Europe they hunt hares, in the northern forests hares will sometimes run 4 or 5 KMs before circling and coming back to the starting point, much like our cottontails. Many Wachtelhunds will trail those hares until they circle, staying with the individual hare, while crossing fresher hare trails. These Wachtelhunds earn the performance symbol "WeitJager" or distance hunter; which is placed on its pedigree.

Here in North America, most Wachtelhunds are used for close in hunting for; upland game, waterrfowl, rabbit hunting, blood trailing wounded deer, decoy dogs for coyote hunting, turkey hunting, and etc. I use my Wachtelhunds for hunting grouse in Northern WI, requiring them to same with in 25 yards, pheasant hunting in the western states, as decoy dogs while calling coyotes and for blood trailing wounded deer (which I do for a fee during September through November).

Wachtelhunds do well with family members and other pets. As a breeder, I always recommend when getting a new pup, to get one of the opposit sex; if you already have a dog. No matter what the breed is, if you have two dogs of the same sex in the house, you will occassionally have a dog fights.

Dave Pepe
DWNA. Chairman
http://www.wachtelhund.us
http://www.deutscherwachtelhund.org

PS: Here are a few recent submitted pictures of a DWMA members' Wachtelhund - Ella Vom Eschenbach.

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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby madonna » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:41 pm

wachtelhund wrote:njp158,
Wachtelhunds make great pets and do very well in the house.

Right!

However, we sell them only as hunting dogs and never for pets. Our motto both here in North America and in Germany is, "bred by hunters for hunters". The Deutscher Wachtelhund North America (DWNA), Inc. is our breed club in the United States and Canada. I'm a Wachtelhund breeder and the Chairman of Deutscher Wachtelhund North America, Inc. The Wachtelhund is a flusher, but still a versatile gun dog that will any type of game: feathered or fur, small or large game, game or predators; including blooding wounded game.

Right!

Wachtelhunds are very intelligent and will learn very quickly the type of hunting you want them to do. In Europe, they use them for various types of hunting, including drive hunts for big game. There, the Wachtelhund will hunt indepentendly moving and circling game to its master or other shooters. They are also expected to hunt in close within shotgun range. The expression, "These dogs are very often "weitJager"- long distant runners", is actually used in the wrong context. The Wachtelhund has a nose very close to a blood hound and will trail game for great distances, but unlike hounds they can be called off. In Europe they hunt hares, in the northern forests hares will sometimes run 4 or 5 KMs before circling and coming back to the starting point, much like our cottontails. Many Wachtelhunds will trail those hares until they circle, staying with the individual hare, while crossing fresher hare trails. These Wachtelhunds earn the performance symbol "WeitJager" or distance hunter; which is placed on its pedigree.

The problem i see with all weitjagers is, that you can not let them walk with you without lead. the first track scent and he is gone- sometime for hours. you have the DW who hunts close under the shotgun, or range long distance- a short ranger in Germany is a dog, that is less than 30 minutes awayk a Weitjager- far-ranger sometimes 3 hours.

Greeting madonna

Here in North America, most Wachtelhunds are used for close in hunting for; upland game, waterrfowl, rabbit hunting, blood trailing wounded deer, decoy dogs for coyote hunting, turkey hunting, and etc. I use my Wachtelhunds for hunting grouse in Northern WI, requiring them to same with in 25 yards, pheasant hunting in the western states, as decoy dogs while calling coyotes and for blood trailing wounded deer (which I do for a fee during September through November).

Wachtelhunds do well with family members and other pets. As a breeder, I always recommend when getting a new pup, to get one of the opposit sex; if you already have a dog. No matter what the breed is, if you have two dogs of the same sex in the house, you will occassionally have a dog fights.

Dave Pepe
DWNA. Chairman
http://www.wachtelhund.us
http://www.deutscherwachtelhund.org

PS: Here are a few recent submitted pictures of a DWMA members' Wachtelhund - Ella Vom Eschenbach.

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Re: Deutscher Wachtelhund

Postby wachtelhund » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:35 pm


The problem i see with all weitjagers is, that you can not let them walk with you without lead. the first track scent and he is gone- sometime for hours. you have the DW who hunts close under the shotgun, or range long distance- a short ranger in Germany is a dog, that is less than 30 minutes awayk a Weitjager- far-ranger sometimes 3 hours.

Greeting madonna


Madonna
I would say your friend's Wachtelhund is a young dog and has not been trained well. Because it is all in the training and expectations placed on the dog. Some Europeans specifically train their Wachtelhunds for Weitjager work. Others do not. I have a deutsche Jagdschein and I've hunted in Germany. On one occassion, I hunted with an individual right on the Czech border, south of Dresden. It was a large drive hunt with may be 80 hunters. Eberhard had a meeting in the morning. He asked me to take his Wachtelhund to the hunt. He told me I would be put on a stand at 8:30 AM and to release his Wachtelhund at 9:30 AM to hunt independently; and he (the dog) would return before the end of the hunt at 12:00 noon. I was put on a stand and tied Eberhard's Wachtelhund to the stand. At 9:00 the Blazers blew their trumpets signaling to load our guns and the start of the hunt. Drivers and dog handlers started moving through the woods. At 9:30 the Blazers blew Hahn & Rue, another tune to unload our guns for a 15 minute pause, I climbed down from the stand and released Eberhard's Wachtelhund as Eberhard had instructed and off went the dog. I climbed back up into the stand thinking I'll never see that dog again. You can not imagaine how surprised I was when that Wachtelhund returned at 11:50; to me, someone who was a complete stranger severral hours earlier. And 10 minutes before the Blazers blew Hahn & Rue, signaling to unload the guns and the end of the hunt. I got down and put the dog on his leash. And just looked at him in amassment. He had no watch, but knew when his time was up. Somethings can be taught to a dog, other thing they learn themselves.

Last month, I was blood trailing a wounded deer with my one of my Wachtelhunds, Bell Vom Flint Hills, for a customer. Normally, I keep her on a 30 foot lead and she pulls me forward and I have to continaly rein her in. A legal requirement in Wisconsin when searching for wounded deer with a dog, the dog must stay on the lead under your control. The search was contiuned from the night before. During the night we received 15 inches of snow. We were searching in an area that had been logged off. They call it slash cutting here because they take just the thick part of the trees and leave the tops and branches, making it almost impossible to walk through. With 15 inches of new snow it was even worse. We had been out for hours and I was getting tired. So I let Bell off the lead. The first time in five years, first time ever on a blood trail! I thought she would go and find the deer and I could follow her foot prints. Well, Bell followed the scent, but would only go about 30 to 40 yards from me and then turn and wait until I caught up with her. Again I was amassed. Had I been hunting grouse or pheasants, I would have expected her to stay close, but on a wounded deer trail that was different. And my Wachelhunds never chase healthy deer. We bump them all fall while grouse hunting in our thick woods. They just stand there and watch the deer run off.

Never have my Wachtelhunds gone off for several hours intentionally. In the past, I pheasant hunted SD alone many times. When I would come upon a large area of cattails and bull rushes; I would walk to one side and place my Wachtelhunds in the stay position. Then I would quietly walk around may be 200 to 300 yards. When I was ready, I would blow the release command and come with my whistle. My Wachtels would come to me through the cattail and bull rushes, flushing pheasants toward me. One time, one of my males got lost and paniced, and did not come out of the tall grass. After looking for him for several hours, I went back to my truck where I found him laying underneath it waiting for me.

It is in the training, but then a well trained Wachtelhund will learn much on their own. I have owned six Wachtelhunds in the last 18 years and they have all taught me things. I have learned from them! I can't teach them the concept of time or how to read time, or not to trail deer when they have been taught to trail wounded deer, or to go to my truck when we get separated. They just know! Would you rather hunt with a dumb dog or a smart one that can think for itself?

Dave Pepe
DWNA, Chairman
http://www.wachtelhund.us
http://www.deutscherwachtelhund.org
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