Do GSP's have an undercoat or Double Coat?

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Do GSP's have an undercoat or Double Coat?

Postby Grange » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:48 pm

Talking with a coworker about late season grouse hunting this afternoon and this question popped in my head. I think the wirehaired breeds do but wasn't sure about the shorthair.
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Postby Ryan » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:21 pm

No there is no undercoat on a GSP.
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Postby terryg » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:25 pm

not to argue with my friend ryan, but as a pro groomer for many years, i can attest that gsp's do have an undercoat. depending on the individual dog and the climate, some are thicker than others, but all have one.

in the spring you can help your gsp shed his undercoat by using any number of shedding style blades from a knife to a curry comb.

when combing the coat use short quick scrapes with the grain and you will see a fuzzy, dull, soft, fluffy hair that is very different than your dogs harder outer coat come to the surface.

care must be taken as the guard hairs do not protect from excessive scraping of the undercoat and the skin right underneath. the skin can be irritated very easily .

most hardly pay attention to this coat, as it is not like the longer breeds but it is there.

the poodle in the only single coated dog today and it has been selectively bred that way.

the original german "pudel" was a water dog that did have an undercoat neede for water work.
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Postby db7 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:54 pm

You sure you have a GSP Ryan!?

Sure they have an undercoat. It is interesting though that the breed standards are silent on the issue. Though it is described on the gspca website.

Terryg, interesting that you say the poodle is the only uni-coat dog. The AKC standard for the Vizsla says they are not to have an undercoat. But other standards are silent, neither yes or no.
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Postby Ryan » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:03 pm

I have never seen an undercoat on my guy but I am not going to say you are wrong.
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Postby Calvinator » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:19 pm

I could be wrong, but I thought Spinone do not have a dual coat like the other wire caoted breeds. Instead they have a thicker skin or something.

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Postby Margaret » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:12 pm

I've never seen one on my dogs but then it's not that cold in my neck of the woods. Coat must be very dense though so it is difficult to see through to the skin.
One coat problem not mentioned much is lack of coated tummy and inside upper thighs.
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Postby orhunter » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:07 pm

Calvin:

We're talking about hunting dogs, not Spinones...
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Postby SteveB » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:25 am

My Avery has an undercoat. About twice a year it is really noticable as the longer outercoat slightly changes color for a week or two. Avery's coat is so harsh and dense that when you rub his hair from back to front you can't see his skin at all.
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Postby yawallac » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:56 pm

Yes, GSPs have an undercoat!
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Postby Bigshrimp » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:21 pm

terryg wrote:the poodle in the only single coated dog today

My Dobermann definitely does not have an undercoat (I wish he did!!).

The hairs are almost like eyebrow hair and you can see the skin by simply touching the hair out of the way or folding his skin.
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Postby terryg » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:30 pm

Bigshrimp wrote:
terryg wrote:the poodle in the only single coated dog today

My Dobermann definitely does not have an undercoat (I wish he did!!).

The hairs are almost like eyebrow hair and you can see the skin by simply touching the hair out of the way or folding his skin.


this goes back to the individual dog i spoke of .

dobes should have a thick, hard, close lying coat very similar to a good gsp.

as with other breeds, working dogs and show dogs often are bred for specific traits and others are less important to the individual breeder.


your dog should have more than you describe and i should look more like tom seleck. unfortunately , neither of us do!

doesn't make either of us a poor specimen :wink: :wink:
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Postby Bigshrimp » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:07 pm

terryg wrote:this goes back to the individual dog i spoke of .
dobes should have a thick, hard, close lying coat


I think you're right Terry.

He does have a very thin coat (even for a Dobe). His uncle is in our club and he has a very thick coat (almost as thick/long as a Rott). However, a bitch from our club has the "Tom Seleck" coat: short, thick and hard. All from the same breeder. With closer inspection both may have the double coat you refer to. My guy definitely doesn't though.

These are working dogs....not as much emphasis on the outside I guess. :D
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Postby spinster » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:16 pm

If you read the AKC standard, spinoni must not have an undercoat:

"Coat:
A Spinone must have a correct coat to be of correct type. The ideal coat length is 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 inches on the body, with a tolerance of 1/2 inch over or under the ideal length. Head, ears, muzzle and front sides of legs and feet are covered by shorter hair. The hair on the backsides of the legs forms a rough brush, but there are never any fringes. The eyes and lips are framed by stiff hair forming eyebrows, mustache and tufted beard, which combine to save fore face from laceration by briar and bush. The coat is dense, stiff and flat or slightly crimped, but not curly, with an absence of undercoat. The Spinone is exhibited in a natural state. The appearance of the Spinone may not be altered. The dog must present the natural appearance of a functional field dog. Dogs with a long, soft or silky coat, the presence of undercoat, or any deviation of the coat is defined in this as well as excessive grooming, i.e., scissoring, clipping, or setting of pattern shall be severely penalized as to eliminate them from further competition."
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Postby terryg » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:50 pm

like many i am not familar with this breed, so i checked it out

i wondered, with no undercoat, what would keep the dog warm in water or cold weather? i read that the dog has extremely thick skin???? and that this thick skin allows the dog to go into cold water and briar patches that other dogs can't?

is this supposed to be for real?
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