Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Pointer and setter breed specific questions. Kennel information requests, etc.

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Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby runningdogs » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:00 pm

I give up on getting a pp or wpg pup anytime soon. Anyone hear of a rescue, please pm me.
Last edited by runningdogs on Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby Shannon » Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:26 am

You'll probably think I'm an ass for this response but for the dogs sake I hope you aren't able to get a PP. These dogs have had almost two centuries of blood, sweat, and tears going into breeding programs to make the best hunting dog they could be. Why would anyone give you a dog if they know you'll never give them the chance to do what they are bred for.
If you had trained for the Olympics all your life and someone decided one day you will never actually get a chance to suit up for your event. How would that make you feel?
If you watched my dogs give it their all on a wild bird hunt and got to see there love of the hunt and drive you would never ask to own a dog and never suit them up for the big game. Get any cute lap dog if all your looking for is a pet.
Just my two cents.
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby Texasphez » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:48 am

So I am by no means trying to be a jerk, would just like to understand your reason.

My question is why? Why do you want a dog that is bred only to hunt if you have no interest in hunting? You say "the perfect pointer" why do you want a pointer? Be it a PP or a WPG. I have to agree with Shannon on this. I believe a dog should have the opportunity to do what it is bred to do. Be it a hunting dog, a herding dog, a sight hound, whatever. I'll give you an example just for sake of conversation. I had a buddy one time that had a whippet. Really neat little dog, great personality. Most times he was just a house dog, but every once in awhile he would take him out to chase rabbits. That dog would come completely uncorked when he did, he would do everything but kill himself when you opened the door on the truck to let him go chase. To see the joy in that little dogs eyes after he caught one, watching him prance around with it in his mouth was really something. So with that being said, my PP doesn't get to hunt everyday, he has to be a pet along with being a hunting dog. But I can assure you I hunt him as much as I possibly can, and when I do you can see the joy in his eyes, he loves to have a bird in his mouth because that is what he was made for.

Once again not trying to be a jerk, or by any means start an argument, just trying to understand why you want a PP. They are great dogs and I love mine to death, but I feel I would be doing him a great disservice by never taking him hunting.
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby jlw034 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:02 am

This is America, you can do what you want.

But like I tell everyone who asks about my dog (and purebreds in general), unless you're getting a dog to fulfill a specific role it was bred for, please please please go check out a shelter. Lots of great, GREAT companion animals get put down everyday.

Best of luck.
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby orhunter » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:53 am

There's a ton of WPG breeders who will sell dogs to whoever walks up to them with the cash but I wish every one would go out of business. To recommend one is to promote this activity and I want no part of it.
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby Kirby » Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:31 pm

jlw034 wrote:This is America, you can do what you want.

But like I tell everyone who asks about my dog (and purebreds in general), unless you're getting a dog to fulfill a specific role it was bred for, please please please go check out a shelter. Lots of great, GREAT companion animals get put down everyday.

Best of luck.


Agreed. Hundreds of thousands of great dogs sitting in shelters. Unless you want that drive to hunt avoid a hard hunting breed like WPG, PP, DD etc. Get the companion you and the family want but I don't see the need to get a dog so bred for hunting.
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby runningdogs » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:17 pm

"My question is why? Why do you want a dog that is bred only to hunt if you have no interest in hunting? You say "the perfect pointer" why do you want a pointer? Be it a PP or a WPG."


Why I Want a Pudelpointer:
I come from a pretty experienced dog background. Had several different mutts as well as a couple of purebreds growing up. Was around pointers/retrievers growing up with my family who live/ranch/hunt in SD, WY, NE. Best friend has vizslas. Worked and volunteered in dog/cat shelters/rescue for 16+ years of my adult life. Fostered and have owned in home several cross-breeds and pure breeds. Walked dogs for part time job for 4 years of adult life. And of all the dogs that fit my personality and lifestyle the best, it was the pointer. Love those gsps especially. But after all that time with dogs I got way too anal about dog hair and decided no more shedding dogs. With shelter pups, it is impossible to find a non shedding puppy. And with a few kids, one of whom is still a little one, I do not feel comfortable adopting an adult. I absolutely support that for families with much older kids. There is always risk involved when having little kids and dogs, but I believe there is a higher element of risk involved when not knowing what breeds are mixed in there as well as the background of the dog. It is too risky for me. I fully fully disagree with all of the random poodle/doodle crosses today that are purely done for monetary gain and will not support that, so they are out. So after WAY too much research, I felt like there was really no choice but to get a standard poodle as the closest I could find to a pointer personality, size, and that also didn't shed. Given my background in rescue, I then spent three years trying/waiting to get a standard poodle from a shelter that was a good fit for our family and hadn't already been screwed up by an owner who got a dog not suited to them (Ironic huh???!!!) Private rescues in the 5 states I checked wouldn't adopt to us due to having kids under 10. Finally after 3 years we managed to get an older pup from a great breeder (she held him and his sister back and ultimately kept only sister) and he is fantastic. We will always have a standard poodle. However he isn't a pointer. I love that goofy yet serene yet independent streak those pointers have. And the fact that they have the ability to keep up with our active family even after 2 straight weeks of camping. When it started looking like it was time to start the dog search again I wondered hmm, why hasnt anyone ever crossed a gsp (my very very fave) with a st poodle. What a perfect mix that would be. And bam, internet search, and up came the pudelpointer... (yes I know that a gsp was not used in the original cross)
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby runningdogs » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:20 pm

"You'll probably think I'm an ass for this response but for the dogs sake I hope you aren't able to get a PP. These dogs have had almost two centuries of blood, sweat, and tears going into breeding programs to make the best hunting dog they could be. Why would anyone give you a dog if they know you'll never give them the chance to do what they are bred for."


Question: there is a dog breed bred exclusively to hunt. Said puppies have the ingrained desire to point and retrieve. Owner #1 purchases the pup with all the hunter cred a breeder could hope for, trains and tests the crap out of it but keeps it in the backyard in a side kennel with a heated doghouse at all other times except the twice a week training and a few months at best of hunting. Spends 5 or 10 mins a day with him, feeding, poop cleaning, watering. All other times the dog is without human interaction and probably depressed and bored as hell. Owner # 2 keeps the dog in the house with several loving kids, stays at home and has the desire and ability to train, hike, walk, bike, fetch, swim, and otherwise socialize the dog regularly. Will also take the dog on just as much, and probably more, wilderness extravaganzas (camping and off leash hiking) as owner #1 goes hunting. The dog does not miss out on the thrill of the point. But he does miss out on bringing back the dead pheasant, duck etc, unless he can catch the damn thing himself. If we are strictly looking at it from the point of what is "nicest to the dog who likes to hunt" such as many of you indicated above, there is NO way you can say that owner # 1 is the better owner. And by the way, owner # 1 is two of my uncles. One of whom later shot his dog in the head for becoming old and lame and beyond hunting. Sure not the norm. But can they and will they call up the hunting dog breeders tomorrow and put up a good story and get on a list? Yes!
I guess I have to give up. But hardly because I would make a bad PP owner for the dog's sake.
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:09 pm

You just need to find a breeder willing to listen.

As a future breeder, I'd request you at least train and test the dog through NA, something easily do-able through a local NAVDHA group if you attend multiple training days. Maybe you should join a NAVDHA club, meet some people, even consider finding a local hunt club.

Breeders put WAY too much time into maintaining and developing talent to let it go to waste. Yes, I'd rather have my dog in a home with family. If I do my job well screening buyers, my pups will end up in homes like yours that ALSO hunt.
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby runningdogs » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:40 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:You just need to find a breeder willing to listen.

As a future breeder, I'd request you at least train and test the dog through NA, something easily do-able through a local NAVDHA group if you attend multiple training days. Maybe you should join a NAVDHA club, meet some people, even consider finding a local hunt club. .


Thank you for suggestion. I actually contacted navhda last week about what is required to test a dog and if I could, even if I don't hunt. They responded yesterday and said at least I can do a natural ability test but I am not sure where I would go from there.

Prob have to just keep looking for a dud or a rescue...
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby Deacon » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:38 am

Many people test dogs with navhda that don't hunt. We had a lady in our chapter absolutely smash the UT test this year and she didn't know how to handle a gun

I have owned 4 pudelpointers over the last 15 years and every one of them shed
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby Shannon » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:33 am

In response to your comment, I'm sure you would be a great pet owner. NAPPA breeders are looking for guys like you that HUNT. With such a demand from hunters the breeders are trying to get there dogs into the hands of hunters that are also great owners. Why settle for less than that right from the get go by selling to someone that doesn't hunt. I'm sure some guys slip through the cracks but the goal is with hunting families that will be great owners. They owe that to the dogs and the men/women that bred them before.
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby runningdogs » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:03 pm

Deacon wrote:Many people test dogs with navhda that don't hunt. We had a lady in our chapter absolutely smash the UT test this year and she didn't know how to handle a gun

I have owned 4 pudelpointers over the last 15 years and every one of them shed


Shedding-- Curious about this, were they the woolier longer hairs or the short slick kind? I had two breeders tell me that the woolier longer hairs shed next to nothing and the shorter slicker ones can shed pretty regularly. For us... little shed = ok. German shepherd or lab shed = not ok!

Very interested in hearing more about this lady who smashed it. Did she have the dog trained by a hunter and then she just ran the test? I would think that the dog would be gun shy when they got a bit older if they hadn't had any formal training? But as is clear, I am pretty ignorant about all of this part. Otherwise I could see it. We have a standard poodle that will retrieve literally ANYTHING I ask him to, ANYWHERE that I ask him to go and the softest mouth I've ever seen! Got him as an older puppy and literally did not teach him anything and at day 1 he was retrieving to my hand. I asked the breeder if she had worked with him on that and she said not a single time! It's pretty amazing really and lots of fun too.
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby runningdogs » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:10 pm

Shannon wrote:In response to your comment, I'm sure you would be a great pet owner. NAPPA breeders are looking for guys like you that HUNT. With such a demand from hunters the breeders are trying to get there dogs into the hands of hunters that are also great owners. Why settle for less than that right from the get go by selling to someone that doesn't hunt. I'm sure some guys slip through the cracks but the goal is with hunting families that will be great owners. They owe that to the dogs and the men/women that bred them before.


This makes sense. I guess I was getting the impression from some that it was cruel of me to want a hunting dog and then not hunt it and that I would be a bad home by doing so. And to this I solidly disagree. I think you have to know what kind of breed you are getting into and be ready to give that dog the outlets it needs to be a well adjusted pet. And I was thinking if it came down to the wire, it sounded like the majority of breeders would choose a hunting home over a nonhunting home, even if it meant the family home part was subpar, or perhaps even cruel in my book. And to this I solidly disagree as well, but...

It sounds like I was wrong and that there are few enough of these dogs bred that the breeders really do get to pick and choose the best of both...
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Re: Some PP search commentary AND WPG breeder inquiry.

Postby Deacon » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:21 pm

None of my dogs have been wooly. They varied in coat from tight and flat, to the prototypical wire coat. They do not shed anywhere near as much as a GSP or a lab, but they do shed at a rate similar to a GWP.

The woman which I referred to, who excelled at the test, knows absolutely nothing about hunting. I gunned for her at the UT test and it was downright nerve-racking to see her lack of gun safety. At the UT test the handler is provided a break open gun, but they are not provided any shells. The only expectation (in the field) for the handler is that they will "swing" on the bird when it flushes, to simulate to the dog, that the handler is actually shooting, rather than simply handling the dog.

This woman is a dedicated dog owner. She is the type of person who may not know a lot, but she is willing to ask a ton of questions, take advice, and work with her dog. I believe she also has a Master Hunter title on the dog, as well as some retrieving titles on the same dog. I don't think the dog has ever been sent to a professional trainer.

I wish you well in your quest. I have a friend of mine who got his first bird dog with the intention of just having a running / hiking companion. The dog ended up getting him hooked on both field trialing as well as hunting. His weekends are now largely planned around some kind of gun dog activity. His circle of friends has expanded to include many people he would not have ever met if he hadn't bought that first dog. I think the problem you will find with the PP is, as Shannon stated, the demand for the dogs is such that the breeders can be very choosy about who they sell puppies to.
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