Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Pointer and setter breed specific questions. Kennel information requests, etc.

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Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby runningdogs » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:24 pm

Hi,
Looking to compare/contrast a few things about pudelpointers vs wirehaired pointing griffons. I don't want to start a big breed debate though because I am equally interested in both at the moment.
So wondering... if you have owned, own, bred or breed, or otherwise have decent knowledge of both breeds overall, (not just hunting capabilities!) would you mind sending me a pm so I can just send you a quick few questions please?
Or if you would prefer I post them here so everyone can gain knowledge, please let me know and I am happy to, but I am not looking for everyone's personal opinion on the best breed!!! :D
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby Densa44 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:18 pm

What do you want to know? Neither one is better and if you don't train them they are all the same. So far there are no show options for PPs and I'm 100% for that. If you don't hunt you don't need a PP.

All dogs of one breed are not all the same and any generalizations will be false.

Any thing else?
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby runningdogs » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:28 pm

Densa44 wrote:What do you want to know? Neither one is better and if you don't train them they are all the same. So far there are no show options for PPs and I'm 100% for that. If you don't hunt you don't need a PP.

All dogs of one breed are not all the same and any generalizations will be false.

Any thing else?


Thanks for this information. I agree with you for the most part. And they will be loved. And trained. And members of the family. And not interested in breeding or showing.
I wanted to know mainly... if both dogs, at roughly the same age -- lets say 2 yrs old--- were worked hard the same amount outdoors, has anyone noticed one breed over the other being more hyper in the house afterward?

I agree it is hard to compare because every dog within the same breed can vary. BUT... I also know that some breeds can in fact have an overall generalization. Such as the several jack russel terriers we fostered over the years that all were insane in the house, whether they played fetch for 10 minutes or 16 hours in a row!! Or the several german shepherds we fostered that had varying coats and varying amounts of grooming but all shed so much we still find their fur in our house over 10 years past the time we had the last one!

I am having some breeders tell me their wpgs are super mellow in the house and others tell me that they are crazy crazy regardless of outside work. However I have only been told mellow about pps in the house if the pps get enough work outside, from pp breeders. Haven't heard the crazy in house thing about them at all! Could boil down to the difference between show and working lines. But it'd be nice to know personal experiences as well.

And ditto shedding. Have been told anything from barely to ton of shedding for wpg breeders, but keep hearing the same thing from pp breeders. That short smooth coat tends to shed on the low to medium side and that longer coats tend to shed very very little. Again, nice to hear from owners about that...

So there ya go!
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby Densa44 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:17 pm

You'll have to ask WPG breeders about their dogs. I only breed for performance and you can check that on the NAVHDA web site.

We brush our dogs frequently because they pick up burrs where they hunt.

We live in very rural Alberta and the dogs get lots of exercise/hunting experience and when in the house sleep. When they want to go out I just open the door.

This may be very different from your situation.

There are no show dogs mixed in our pedigrees,
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby GRIFF MAN » Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:46 pm

I would say that alot of the versatile breeds are similar in their characteristics. I also think that geographical location would be an determining factor when deciding on a breed of dog. PP are probably a bit better in the warm climates than the Griffon is, both are more than capable in the cold climates. Not sure where you are located but you may want to think about that factor.
Otherwise I would find a good breeder that has been referred to you and get a pup and don't look back.....



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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby runningdogs » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:18 pm

GRIFF MAN wrote:I would say that alot of the versatile breeds are similar in their characteristics. I also think that geographical location would be an determining factor when deciding on a breed of dog. PP are probably a bit better in the warm climates than the Griffon is, both are more than capable in the cold climates. Not sure where you are located but you may want to think about that factor.
Otherwise I would find a good breeder that has been referred to you and get a pup and don't look back.....

GriffMan


Thanks and very good point we did not consider well. We are in metro denver co area so mostly hot summers but not terrible winters. Do spend a lot of time in mtns year round though. But looking to possibly move to steamboat area in a few years so that would cut down on some heat. PPs are seeming like the probable choice...
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby Gauge » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:54 pm

the ability turn off the switch in the house is in the breeding not the breed. Find a breeder that breeds to your hunting and lifestyle.
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby JTracyII » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:09 pm

Don't know if you said, will you be hunting the dog and if so what?
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby runningdogs » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:58 pm

JTracyII wrote:Don't know if you said, will you be hunting the dog and if so what?


Can of worms, here we go...

We wont be hunting the dog. But please read before you attack. I grew up in a hunting household my whole life with my Dad and Uncles and best friends Dads hunting everything they could shoot. I am familiar with hunting and with hunting with dogs and with hunting without dogs from a very early age. I grew up around gsps and labs mainly but also some vizsla and springer experience. I have seen hunting dogs as loved members of the family. I have also seen hunting dogs who lived their lives in a cold a$$ garage with the only semi-kindness coming to them when they did something right for their master. And yep, I'll judge. That's a bs way for a dog to live imho. And yes I know a lot of hunting dogs are not treated that way. But a lot are. Here's what I learned for myself. Hunting isn't for me. But pointers are. I have had so many kinds of dogs in my life and although it's another generalization, there is something about their personality that I love and miss. Funny enough though, when I got picky about dog hair I didn't think I could ever have a pointer because I thought they were all heavy shedders (except for vizlas and weims, which I love but I don't like that short pokey fur that sticks into everything they touch). In my family I never learned about wpgs and pps. So when I recently started researching I got pretty excited about the prospect of possibly being able to have a low shedding pointer after all. But then I started learning how strongly many breeders feel about their dogs going to hunting homes. So I have to be honest. I get it but I don't. I agree that these dogs should not become the next designer dog. They were meant to hunt and to be bred and trained as such. But come on. I know how many days the average hunter might take a pointer out in a given year. And it's not that high of a percentage. And yes I know there are things like navhda that folks participate in, but I also know that a lot of folks with hunting dogs don't! So if I have no intent to breed my dog and damage the line, but I do intend on having it live inside my home with my family and children as a loved part of our family, and if I do intend to do the research necessary to make sure it is the right fit first (1-2 years before we even intend to get the dog!), and if I do intend to research and make sure I am purchasing from a reputable and upstanding breeder, and if I do intend to work the dog through agility and hiking, and running, and camping, and playing with my kids, then I do not comprehend why I do not deserve to have a dog of these breeds (without resorting to a backyard breeder).

So feel free to pm me if you know of a breeder of either breed that comes highly recommended and would consider a home such as ours for one of their pups. Stepping down from my soap box now.
And for the record, my Dad has been scratching his head for decades about how on earth he managed to raise and let loose a lettuce eating tree hugger. (his words not mine...) :-? :-?
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby Densa44 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:57 am

I appreciate your candor. PPs are very hard to get and expensive so IMO for your needs PPs are not the best choice.

As far as in house goes our 4 girls sleep on the bed with us. We will start hunting every day tomorrow and go until the birds migrate or the season ends Dec 31. After that we'll start training again.
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby Deuce » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:49 am

You'll have better luck with getting a show griff out of lines that don't hunt than a PP. PP breeders are pretty set on having the breed stay in hunting homes and not go down the tubes like Weims have since they became show popular.

All your questions are breeder specific, not breed specific.

With hunting breeds you can't fault the breeders for wanting their dogs to go to hunting homes. They want to know how their puppies perform so they can adjust their breedings accordingly. If you don't hunt, how are they going to get that info?

You're absolutely right, everyone has freedom to do what they want with their dogs.

All 3 of mine live in our house, have more space on the couch than I do, and I hunt 30-45 days a season at least. In fact, I don't know anyone who's hunting dogs are straight kennel dogs. They're all part of the family.
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby Gauge » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:13 pm

yep get a show bred Griff, you and the dog will be much happier. Don't even think of getting a good field bred Grif or a PP they will drive you nuts if you do not hunt them :D
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby runningdogs » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:28 pm

Ok thanks everyone!
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby Densa44 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:46 am

This might help. There is a fellow on here who breeds Airedales, 60 years ago they were very highly regarded. FDR said that they were the best dogs ever. They have fallen out of favour and I don't know why. They are not a versatile hunting dog but that will be O.K. for you.

The fellow goes by the handle Hicntry (That is close) he might be able to help you with a dog or some advice.

Good luck and your honesty is much appreciated.
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Re: Anyone breed, own (or owned) a pudelpointer AND a grif?

Postby runningdogs » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:56 pm

Densa44 wrote:This might help. There is a fellow on here who breeds Airedales, 60 years ago they were very highly regarded. FDR said that they were the best dogs ever. They have fallen out of favour and I don't know why. They are not a versatile hunting dog but that will be O.K. for you.

The fellow goes by the handle Hicntry (That is close) he might be able to help you with a dog or some advice.

Good luck and your honesty is much appreciated.


I appreciate your suggestion. I considered them, as some friends have a couple, but Airedales really just aren't for me. I'd really like a dog that's bred to retrieve and they just aren't. I know that some will and that others can be trained but they just would not be my first choice. I'll continue with my research for sure. Just love that pointer personality. We actually have a standard poodle who quite honestly would have been a phenomenal hunting dog no matter what anyone says. And he is just hardwired to retrieve retrieve retrieve all day long. But as much as we love him, he is just a little... not sure what the right word is... ditzy I guess. :)
Maybe my lot in life is to either start hunting or be stuck with ditzy dogs for the rest of my life... ;)
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