Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

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Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby madduckdog » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:17 pm

Everyone by now knows I am a VPP-er. Just to be fair about the whole thing.

When I was looking for a pup 2 years ago I called around to the 2 big groups the Bodo's and the Bob's. Guess which group was the nicenest bunch of folk ?

Answer they were bof nice folk and bof dominated by the Alphal males in the group.

Just immage what a club this would be if,,, all these great dog men were in the same club and the pudelpointer had a unified front in North America. Instead of a mess headed for something more messed up than the GWP - DD situation.

what is the answer ???

all dogs come from the "mother club" but most american dogs don't qualify to be in the mother club. Many good folk have spent time and money getting what they like in their breeding stock. They are very proud of their current dogs and beleive they have made progress twards what they wish for in a dog. I have noticed it is kind of taboo to discuss this because feelings go so deep.

Folks their is a elephant in the room
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby orhunter » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:24 pm

Mad: You better check Bodo's status in the "other" club.
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby madduckdog » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:37 pm

I understand he is in poor health.

I have been told he and Bob were once good friends.
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby DesertPP » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:55 pm

A member of our NAVHDA chapter is also a member of the PCNA and the VPP-GNA. I asked him recently whether the fact that Bodo has left the PCNA if he thought that it would ever merge with NAPPA or at least share gentics in the future.

He is not an officer or spokesperson for either club, but thought it unlikely. Seems that there is concern about the purety of PPs that came out of the former Iron Curtain countries. I found this odd Considering recent attemps in the PCNA to nick their genetics with fresh pointer blood. But it is their game.Who am I to question.Specially considering how nice his dogs are.Hopefully there will never be the animous between the clubs that there appears to be between the DD and GWA.
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby madduckdog » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:10 pm

it seams a shame that what some call a "small gen" is not benefit from the riseing popularity of the breed.
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby Jay » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:36 pm

I'd love to see the VPP grow in North America, I don't think there are many litters being put out, so when the time comes to add another pup to the house I envision a trip to Germany looking for a breeder. I don't hunt hogs so I don't need a Drhat :lol: ,but I do like the breeding programs and testing system within the JGHV. While many want a PP that does exactly what a North American PP does, I do appreciate the fur and blood component added to the mix for my hunting needs.
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby orhunter » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:44 pm

I agree with Jay, there is probably a need for VPP and in my opinion, it would also be nice if the other two could merge.

Desert: I don't think the PCNA would be willing to give up enough to make it happen. If it is true that the PCNA has indeed gone back to one of the foundation breeds, the EP, it simply shows the weakness in their resources and/or the dogs themselves. This is where the PCNA could benefit from merging with NAPPA. We have to consider this opinion is coming from someone on the outside looking in. Not much value in what I think.
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby tbaier74 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:51 pm

I purchase my dogs from NAPPA breeders because they accept genetics based upon performance not what region or country or affiliation with club's the dog's parents had. Case in point: On Sunday a friend of mine and I will be traveling to Boise to pick up his a pup. This female has PCNA, Czech and Cedarwood blood in her pedigree. I don't see any mess when I look at NAPPA, just solid performing hunting dogs.
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby blue04 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:30 pm

My impression is that the NAPPA group has less internal turmoil than PCNA, but I have no inside info so I can't say for sure. I don't agree with bringing EP blood in. There are enough good PPs around with enough variation that this shouldn't be necessary.

I also dont get the impression that the NAPPA has any rules about breeding their dogs with non- NAPPA dogs, but I think VPP may have such rules. (please enlighten me if I've got this wrong). Not sure about PCNA.

I would think the PCNA guys could share breeding stock with NAPPA breeders. Or... The PCNA breeders could just buy pups from PCNA breeders and develop them to expand their stock, couldn't they?
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby Shannon » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:01 am

I'm with tbaier74 on this. I just picked my pup up today from the same litter for the same reasons. Your buddy is getting a little fireball. Tell him good luck with it for me.
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby azquailhntr » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:10 am

I don't have a lot of personal info so take this with a grain of salt but, I tend to agree with what the NAPPA breeders are trying to produce...Solid Hunting Dogs. I am sure that is the ultimate aim of both PCNA and VPP as well. I just don't quite understand why, as breeders wanting the best, you would not want to take from the best and promote that within the breed. I am not saying that NAPPA has the best dogs I mean that in a general sense.

Just the opinion of a noob :multi:
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby Cooper Hill Hunter » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:23 am

I think that NAPPA is the current force, I believe over 20 breeders with some reasonable rules in place and is probably whelping many more pups than PCNA. Man those VPP dogs I saw sure looked nice! If the VPP takes off, I don't think it would be too long before the dogs here could outnumber those in the Fatherland if you look at the #'s Wolfgang has posted here in the past. It is a good fit for NA, I still would love to try a PP out someday.
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby Gauge » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:26 am

Shannon wrote:I'm with tbaier74 on this. I just picked my pup up today from the same litter for the same reasons. Your buddy is getting a little fireball. Tell him good luck with it for me.


Shannon - what is the breeding of your pup?
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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby blathens » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:51 am

I heard recently that since leaving the PCNA, Bodo has started a new PP club called "The Bodo Winterhelt Pudelpointer Organization." The PCNA has always been the Bodo Club anyway, in my opinion.

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Re: Pudelpointer Clubs what a mess.

Postby bwjohn » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:22 am

[quote] I just don't quite understand why, as breeders wanting the best, you would not want to take from the best and promote that within the breed./quote]

this statement highlights the fundamental problem. What is the best? It is so subjective to each breeder and hunter. That is the major problem within in any breed. What some people see as the betterment of the breed others see as a complete abomination of a breed.

I have a pp, love the dog, didn't worry about what group he came from. Hunted over the sire and loved the dog. But in my other chosen breed the Vizsla, I see a lot of things going on that I think are not right for the Vizsla and does not fit into the breed, but many disagree with me.

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