stud fee puppy question

Genetics, breeding, birth defects, diseases, etc. (No litter listings)

Moderator: Moderator Pack

stud fee puppy question

Postby katababa » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:01 am

hi

for all the breeders out there . . .here is my question. You have a litter of pups, one of those pups goes to the owner of the stud as a stud fee puppy. That puppy then got sold to someone. If that dog needed to be rehomed for any reason, a responsible breeder would take it back no matter what. My question is, who would you consider the breeder who the dog goes back to? The person who's bitch whelped the litter or the person who received the stud fee pup and then placed it?


thanks!
Last edited by katababa on Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
katababa
Seasoned
Seasoned
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:32 pm
Location: Maryland

Postby SwitchGrassWPG » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:56 am

The owner of the bitch is ultimately responsible for the litter. There are a lot of reasons a puppy needs to be rehomed. However, it would raise a lot of questions if the puupy to the stud dog owner needed to be rehomed...perhaps that person shouldn't be offering their dog for stud.

Jay
User avatar
SwitchGrassWPG
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 8:08 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Postby DK1 » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:22 pm

Good question. I think you could "play" it either way, but unless you don't (for some reason) trust the puppy to be re-placed in good hands [again] by the stud owner then the bitch owner should take the pup by all means. If the pup is going to be re-placed either way by bitch or stud owner I don't think it matters unless one is a better temp home than the other.

I would hope either party is willing to help each other out even well after the breeding. :)
DK1
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:08 pm

Postby Hunter » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:45 pm

I don't believe the breeder has to take the dog back to be considered a "responsible" breeder. Is the breeder expected to pay for this dog? How much, puppy price?

When someone purchases a puppy, the puppy becomes the buyers responsiblity...not the breeders. If the puppy does not have natural hunting abilities, has a genetic fault, or bad temperament...then that is the breeder's responsiblity. Just because someone decides they don't want or can't have the dog any more does not mean the breeder is responsible for the dog.
Hunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 10:50 pm

Postby hicntry » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:17 pm

I have to say, I am with Hunter 100% on this one. I have replaced pups for a variety of reasons, with no contracts involved. I do not want the pup back, I do want the papers on the dog back so they can't sell it and they don't get a replacement without the papers being returned. When a pup is gone for any amount of time, his place is filled here. I am curious why in todays world, the general concensus is "to be a responsible breeder you are the lifelong custodian of every dog produced?". If the dog doesn't hunt, I am probably the last person they want to bring it back to anyway. I am not breeding to produce dogs that can't hunt and won't feed them for long. Maybe many peoples idealistic attitudes are what is wrong with many of the working breeds today.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
hicntry
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3588
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:22 pm
Location: North Fork, CA

Postby katababa » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:39 pm

in my humble opinion, you are responsible for the dog for the life of that dog. that doesn't mean you have to pay to get them back, but you would prefer the dog to be returned to you instead of for example dumped at a pound, dumped on a field ect.
User avatar
katababa
Seasoned
Seasoned
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:32 pm
Location: Maryland

Postby hicntry » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:31 pm

Katababa, if that is the way you personally feel, I will respect that. But when when come up with blanket statements such as " a responsible breeder would take it back no matter what. " It somewhat sticks in my craw. You blatantly assume you are doing the only right thing and everyone should do as you feel. It becomes an ethical question. Your ethics are right for you, not everyone. Most breeders today hand feed the weak, raise them in controlled temps, and spend untold amounts of $'s on the weak and the sickly. I have to disagree with you "ethically". A sickly, or a sorry dog should be put down. As a breeder, you are supposed to be accepting the responsibility of striving to improve your breed.....not just maintaining it at a status quo of average. Breeding is not always a "feel good" proposition. There are a lot of tough decisions that most breeders rationalize one way or the other to avoid. Some don't and they usually have good dogs. If anyone's intent is to breed average dogs, they should stay away from the working breeds. While you feel ethical being the lifelong guardian of dogs that don't hunt, I would feel highly unethical wasting my time and energy on them because they do nothing for a working breed except bring them down to a pet level. But, please don't assume "all" reponsible breeders should do it your way.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
hicntry
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3588
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:22 pm
Location: North Fork, CA

Postby katababa » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:05 pm

hicntry

i am not a breeder so I am not qualified to have this discussion with you properly. however, i do not believe that ALL the dogs in your litter are going to be amazing working dogs, some of those dogs are going to be pets, just the way genetics crumble.

My questions was a logistical question since i do not know stud fee issues. I do know many breeders though and most would prefer to have their dogs back if something happens with the owner . . .ect. Those dogs coming back aren't always the pets.

anyways . . .i was more curious to the logistics, not a discussion about breeder ethics. i hope you understand.
User avatar
katababa
Seasoned
Seasoned
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:32 pm
Location: Maryland

Postby yawallac » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:18 pm

i was more curious to the logistics

The logistics should be spelled out prior to the purchase ...and in writing.
User avatar
yawallac
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:00 am

Postby hicntry » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:49 pm

I understand Katababa and sorry about the rant. It was the choiece of words used " a responsible breeder would take it back no matter what." I can't get past certain ideals and idealistic stereo types, obviously, Hunter caught it also. Your right also, I have dogs I don't consider will turn into barn burners and as such, I place them in pet homes to start with because I generally pick the pups. I have replace pups for such things as getting run over.....for a little boy and I put the boys name on the papers of the replacement.. I have replaced one for an elderly couple that got cut up in some barbed wire and died of tetanus. Never had much of a problem getting dogs back but the few times it has come up, I declined to do so. I will tell folks there is a pup/dog in so and so state available.....but I won't take them back as it is the peoples responsibility to place them, not mine. I don't make up unenforcable contracts when sold either.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
hicntry
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3588
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:22 pm
Location: North Fork, CA

stud fee puppy question

Postby Deadwood » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:11 pm

Back to the original question - the stud owner took custody of the pup and sold it to another party. The stud owner is responsible for the sale - responsible for the pup (he helped create it).

As a breeder, I prefer to pay a stud fee and keep it simple. Trading pups for stud fees can lead to unnecessary conflicts. If the stud owner wants to buy a puppy from the litter for themselves, that is fine. If they don't intend to keep the pup and it has my kennel name attached, I would prefer to place it myself.
Deadwood
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Wellsville, PA

Re: stud fee puppy question

Postby Tony » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:20 pm

Deadwood wrote:As a breeder, I prefer to pay a stud fee and keep it simple. Trading pups for stud fees can lead to unnecessary conflicts. If the stud owner wants to buy a puppy from the litter for themselves, that is fine. If they don't intend to keep the pup and it has my kennel name attached, I would prefer to place it myself.

I am not a breeder, but this is how I would do it if I were. As the owner of a stud dog, I would only take a pup in leu of stud fee if I was planning on keeping the pup for myself.
Tony
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 9:03 pm
Location: Iowa

Postby yawallac » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:54 pm

As a breeder, I prefer to pay a stud fee and keep it simple.

I agree, plus I don't want to give up "pick pup". His "pick" and my "pick" may or not be the same, but I have little interest in giving up that option.
User avatar
yawallac
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:00 am

Re: stud fee puppy question

Postby Densa44 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:03 pm

Just use good old green backs unless the guy wants your pup. What ever happens after that is his business.

Don't drag this out.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
User avatar
Densa44
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 732
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:10 pm


Return to Breeding

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests