Breeders how do you do it?

Genetics, breeding, birth defects, diseases, etc. (No litter listings)

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Breeders how do you do it?

Postby motoGSP » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:05 pm

This is for anyone that has breed dogs before. Whether it was one or many dogs. I am curious on how people decided to get started. Did you have a great dog and decide I am going to breed. Just the love of animals.

I have a female that I was thinking of breeding but she is young so I have a while before deciding. Plus I want to have her hips checked and makes sure she is worth it.

What made you decide to breed and how did you decide on what dogs to do so?

How many dogs did you have before making the choice?
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Postby chicago0517 » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:35 pm

oh boy
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Postby orhunter » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:06 pm

C'on folks.

Don't everyone jump on this at once......
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Postby motoGSP » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:52 pm

OK I can see from the two answers I got I din't word my questions quite right. I understand about meeting standard and breed to make the breed better and understand more then you may think or give me credit for. I guess I was looking for more of a story or something like that. Why someone decided to breed. Whether it was a hobby, career choice, the love of animals. Maybe you felt you could make a better dog.

Sorry for the confusion.
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Postby DrahtsundBraats » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:02 pm

I think you'll get some response-don't worry.

I think most of us that are serious get the best pup possible and then see if the dog proves itself to be breeding material. Another words, you have plenty of time. For me, NO dog is breeding material when I buy it. A dog has gotta prove its got some serious "mojo" before you start worrying about breeding all the medical tests. There's plenty of mediocre dogs in the world. First be convinced your dog is really good.

Hint-get out and see lots of other dogs-GOOD dogs. Then you'll understand where your dog stands.
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Postby Hunter » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:54 pm

I imagine many people feel there are different reasons to breed. Think about the type of breeder you would want to buy a pup from.

I want to buy from a breeder who has very clear (specific) goals and direction for their breeding program, as well as a plan on how to get there. If I hear a breeder talking about "improving the breed" I start looking elsewhere, I don't need a sales pitch...I need a specific type of hunting dog. I see no reason to breed a dog unless you know exactly what you want to produce. I realize everything doesn't go as planned, but those are just bumps in the road.

A breeder needs a lot of time to devote to dogs. A breeder can't evaluate what he/she is producing unless they keep some pups. This takes a lot of time, always bringing another pup along. Breeders that don't keep pups are not too serious about reaching their goal or may not even have a goal.

I am skeptical of someone who only occationally produces a litter. I see all to often a breeder has a litter, keeps one pup, then down the road breeds the pup, keeps a pup out of that litter..... The chances of that one pup being worthy to be breed is just too slim. Often the "breeder" is breeding that pup because that is the one they have...not because that is the best pup.

The breeder needs to be highly critical and objective. If every dog he/she produces is a "great" dog without flaws the breeder will never be able to make any improvments or reach goals.

Once you know what type of dog you want to produce, then you decide how well your dog/dogs match to the type. Is another breeder producing dogs closer to your goal then what you have already? If you are lucky, your first dog may be breedworthy. It is also very possible to go through 10 dogs before getting one you are satisfied with. If you keep/get multiple dogs at one time you will shorten the time in finding a dog that is breed quality.

A breeder needs time, money, goals, and an open mind.
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Postby hicntry » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:39 am

Goals can also change over time. After a while, just having dogs that were hard enough for big game wasn't enough, I wanted them to do water retrieving, protection and basically , whatever may be asked of them. The longer you breed, things change. When goals are met, higher ones are set. It is like having an addiction. It becomes your life.
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Postby CherrystoneWeims » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:53 am

I got started quite differently than most breeders. I started with a male. When I bought him from a very good breeder (great lines top and bottom with both show and field titles)he was just going to be a pet. The breeder saw him again at 5 mos. of age and asked if I was willing to show him. I agreed. The pup started winning big time. Finished his bench Ch. pretty young. OK where do I go from there. So I started doing some field work with him. He was fantastic on birds. Great drive, great point, I had a hard time getting him out of the field each time when it was time to leave. I knew I had something there. He also is very biddable with excellent temperament.

Handlers started wanting him to special in the showring. Breeders wanted to breed to him. So I started specialing him and studding him out. He produced FANTASTICALLY (still is) both in the ring and the field. What to do now? I went in search for a bitch that would complement him. Smaller size since he is quite large and I wanted that performance. I found her! Her sire and dam both have great performance titles and lots of smarts. Not Specials material as far as conformation goes but I knew what my stud was capable of producing when bred to next to nothing. But she too had to prove herself before I would breed her. I finished her in the showring and worked her in the field. We dabbled some at tracking and obedience too. She also had the "Right stuff". In fact she is now running at Master level.

In the meantime I was mentored by fellow Weim breeders. I cobred a couple of litters with them, went to lots of field events, shows, etc. I learned about different dogs, what to watch out for, who carrys what genetic diseases, etc. My days of showing horses and working with people who bred them really helped me out also. I knew about conformation, movement, and pedigrees from this experience.

I bred the two of them and the rest is history. It was a total outcross but each one was lacking what the other had. I got some fantastic pups in the litter. 4 of the 10 are finishing their bench Ch. and many of them are also doing well in the field working on Senior Hunter titles. I am kicking myself about a male that I got back. I just wish that I had been able to work him as a small pup on birds. He didn't see his first quail (other than the ones that I exposed them to while they were still in the litter) until he was almost 2 yrs. of age. He is a fanatic about birds. Big run off of horseback and the 4-wheeler. I just wish that I had been able to run him in Derby!.

I co-own all of my pups and have it written in my contract that I control all of the breeding of them. They can't be spayed or neutered until I say so. I can't keep them all at my house but this is my way of keeping the pups so that I can evaluate them and have them for future breeding stock. I also mentor all of my puppy buyers to keep knowledge going in the breed and to also spark interest for people to do more with their pups. I don't interfere though but my puppy buyers all say that they are grateful for my help and know that they can call me at any time for answers to questions.

Before you breed ask yourself if you are able/willing to take back pups at any time from your breedings for whatever reason. IMHO that's what an ethical breeder does.
Last edited by CherrystoneWeims on Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dualgwp » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:09 pm

Some things to keep in mind....some of us learned the hard way!

Don't be so in love with your bitch that you are unable to see her faults

Ask for others to critique your bitch and then actually listen to what they say.

Watch a whole bunch of dogs of your breed, as many as you possibly can

Ask a whole lot of questions of folks who have dogs you admire

Talk to your breeder, ask them why they did the breeding that produced your pup, and ask their opinion of where you may go with her down the road.

Find a mentor, read all you can, learn the history of your breed

Read pedigrees until you can talk about lines that have been successful

Don't believe all those people who tell you they would love a puppy from your bitch, not until you have a deposit in hand!
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Postby motoGSP » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:09 am

Thanks for the responces. Well it seems I have my work cut out for me. I will be doing some hunt test come this spring and hope to be able to train a few times with a club before that to see what others have to say. I will be doing my own training in the mean time and talking with as many people as possible.

Thanks again
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Postby Vom Britt » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:16 pm

Moto,

I enjoy playing the hunt test games to their highest levels but the real game for me is how my dogs handle native birds, not game farm birds or put & take birds. I don't care how may titles my dogs may have, they will not be bred if they have problems pinning grouse within their first three full hunting seasons. Granted some may be better than others but if they fail at handling grouse & doodles for me, and I am a grouse hunter looking for that better grouse dog, why would I breed a dog which has problems with them?
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Postby motoGSP » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:26 pm

Thanks again for the responces. It seem that most people on here have had many years of working with dogs or had some other type of background that aids in the breeding training process of dogs. At least that is what I am getting from reading the different posts. Growing up with dogs is nothing like owning one. I never had to do much training or the care for them so I really only have a year or so under my belt. When do people decide it was the right time? or how long was it till you decided the time was right?
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Postby bwood » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:36 pm

Moto,
I'm in the same boat you are, just a little farther along. After getting a GSP 3 years ago I thought I might like to get involved. 2 years ago I switched to GWP's (I still have the GSP but she was fixed at 8 months). The GWP was my first serious hope. 2+ years later there is a question about her hips. 3 years later here I am having not bred a dog with a deposit down on yet another pup from yet a better breeding. (I hope) I have learned tons from reading forums, joining NAVHDA, attending tests, talking to others, etc, etc. If I'm going to do it I want to produce top-flight pups. That may not always happen and I'm again a couple years away but I'm enjoying the journey!
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Re: Breeders how do you do it?

Postby Densa44 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:09 pm

So I could get a dog of my own. Son has a dog and wife has a dog, all but me. There were no pudelpointers available that I wanted, sooo.. I put an ad in the NAVHDA magazine met a very fine fellow from LA who had an equally well qualified dog (UT1 score) on genetic faults, good hips and no common relatives. My Dog (the pup from the union) got 2 perfect scores before she was 20 months old. We have bred to the same sire 2 more times and can't meet the demand.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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