Line Breeding?

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Line Breeding?

Postby Lingo302 » Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:31 pm

Does anyone have any advise on buying a pup from parents that have been "line-bred?" What are the pros & cons? What should someone look for in the pedigree?

Thanks, Bryan
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Postby Hunter » Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:57 pm

Lingo302,
Linebreeding can be very good, or very bad. It depends if the breeder knows what they are doing.

You will have to do some research about the dogs in the pedigree, especially the ones that appear multiple times. What faults do these dogs have, they will be magnified in a linebreeding. What are the strengths? Talk to people who have hunted with the dogs, if possible go see the dogs.

Is this going to be a repeat breeding? How did the first litter turn out?
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Postby KJ » Sat Mar 01, 2003 2:26 am

Linebreeding gives more consistant results. Whether these results are good or bad depends on what dogs are being linebred. Some of the best dogs have resulted from father/daughter breedings but have generally been done by breeders who know what they are doing. Do your homework on the breeder and line of dogs.
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Re: Line Breeding?

Postby Densa44 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:38 pm

Shortened life span, higher risks of inherited genetic illness.
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Re: Line Breeding?

Postby STait » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:20 pm

Shouldn't see any negative effects if objective selection has been the breeders' diligent regard.
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Re: Line Breeding?

Postby GPBLITZ » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:25 pm

I'm a believer in line breeding. On the other hand even the most knowledgable breeders have created large bone yards line breeding.
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Re: Line Breeding?

Postby GRIFF MAN » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:14 am

I think some people confuse "line breeding" and " inbreeding".
Line breeding is breeding dogs with similar pedigrees in recent generations. Inbreeding is breeding parent to off spring or siblings.

Inbreeding can be risky, but has been done with good results in many breeds. Line breeding is also a good way to strengthen traits, some desirable some not desirable. I like to see breeders line breed to get consistency, and out cross once in a while to freshen things up.

As long as breeders aren't inbreeding or line breeding just because it's easy, I have no problem with it.

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Re: Line Breeding?

Postby DrahtsundBraats » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:52 pm

I'm a believer in line breeding. On the other hand even the most knowledgable breeders have created large bone yards line breeding.


Well...an indelicate way of saying what will probably need to be done when coefficients get too high. That said, find a breeder that is consistently putting on the same product and you will probably find and incestuous or tight line breeding somewhere.

I will be getting a puppy from a breeder that bred sister/brother TWICE and there was not one genetic flaw in either litter....very good performance, all similar in type, good temperaments, above average coats/conformation. But..he knew the pedigree personally going back 25 years...from a line that goes back a total of 50 years. His litters out of outcrosses have been also consistently good. IMO...For a breeder, the secret to consistency is a prepotent bitch line. I don't think you can get genetic prepotence without breeding very closely...making the hard decisions and having a bit of luck.
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Re: Line Breeding?

Postby GPBLITZ » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:51 pm

Lets take a look at the Elhew line of pointers and the Moesgaard line of GSP's. Both kennels produced outstanding dogs . Running CIO up in the 50% and a little higher at times . Both produced some outstanding dogs inbreeding and line breeding. both also put many pups down in their breeding program due to genetic defects . Some were entire litters. Some maybe 1,2 pups made the grade ,rest put down . Could you call that a successful breeding ? Those boys had enough guts to see it as it was and destroy what was genetically unsound. IMO I don't think it is just a prepotent bitch line. The bitch only contributes half. IMO it's how the genes hook up. Even the most thought out breedings can be a disaster when genes hook up wrong. Indelicate, maybe . I'm not a believer in political correctness. All that does is strip of your true thoughts and expression . I did a breeding with a couple of Setters both sound dogs. Breeding was Mother /son. Breeder of the bitch said line was clean. 9 pups whelped, 5 with do many toes, 1 with no but, 1 with 1 nostril . The 2 that made it, well 1 ended up being a box of rocks and HD. the other was a fine outstanding bird dog.
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Re: Line Breeding?

Postby bluestemkennels » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:53 am

GPBLITZ wrote:Lets take a look at the Elhew line of pointers and the Moesgaard line of GSP's. Both kennels produced outstanding dogs . Running CIO up in the 50% and a little higher at times . Both produced some outstanding dogs inbreeding and line breeding. both also put many pups down in their breeding program due to genetic defects . Some were entire litters. Some maybe 1,2 pups made the grade ,rest put down . Could you call that a successful breeding ? Those boys had enough guts to see it as it was and destroy what was genetically unsound. IMO I don't think it is just a prepotent bitch line. The bitch only contributes half. IMO it's how the genes hook up. Even the most thought out breedings can be a disaster when genes hook up wrong. Indelicate, maybe . I'm not a believer in political correctness. All that does is strip of your true thoughts and expression . I did a breeding with a couple of Setters both sound dogs. Breeding was Mother /son. Breeder of the bitch said line was clean. 9 pups whelped, 5 with do many toes, 1 with no but, 1 with 1 nostril . The 2 that made it, well 1 ended up being a box of rocks and HD. the other was a fine outstanding bird dog.


+1

Read Snakefoot by Wehle for an interesting look into that world. The sheer number of dogs these folks dealt with made their programs successful IMO. I also don't think most V-dog breeders have the capacity or desire to put down entire liters. Line-breeding has a place. Intense or prolonged line-breeding requires cold, honest and uncompromising discipline on the part of the breeder. That being said, caveat emptor.

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Re: Line Breeding?

Postby GPBLITZ » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:28 pm

I won't go half brother half sister, many will. I'll do a 2-3 all day long. I've seriously thought of doing a double 2 - 3. Reading on genetics though I've learned that this can also be risky since you are dealing , linbreeding off of 2 different gene pools. (long story short).
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