To breed? Or not to Breed? want your opinions

Genetics, breeding, birth defects, diseases, etc. (No litter listings)

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TO BREED, OR NOT TO BREED

Poll ended at Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:57 pm

would breed/buy pup/sire the pups
1
13%
would not breed/buy/sire the pups
7
88%
 
Total votes : 8

To breed? Or not to Breed? want your opinions

Postby Blue Weim Mom » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:57 pm

Hi, okay short - sweet and simple My name says it all. I own a Blue Weimaraner. I am very much on the fence on weather I want to breed her or not. I DID NOT buy her for a show dog. SHE'S A HUNTIN' Dog
I have been told that some people are hesitant to breed with a blue, or a dog that has a blue backround. So- if there were pups for sale, and both parents had proven hunting - abilities. (NAVHDA, or any AKC test/trials)
Would you buy one (BLUE-or froma a blue) And if you had a stud that wasn't blue, would you be willing to breed if the bitch had those accomplishments.
I am not looking for answers to my problem so much as just looking for opinions. So that I can gauge things for my little girl's future.
THANKS FOR YOUR OPINIONS!!!!!!!!!
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Postby JB » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:45 pm

If your blue weim is a hunting machine, and I mean an all day hunter that has a lot of point, a great nose, is good retriever and loves water, AND, you can break her without loosing style and intensity on point I would say to breed her. The only problem despite her coat color would be her health history. I can almost assume that she was a BYB dog since 99% of the reputable field or show breeders don't breed blues? This would also tell me that her breeders wouldn't know what hidden recessive might be lingering in her background. IMO, we really do need to widen the gene pool so I don't have a problem with breeding to a blue as long as it's truly a hard charging healthy hunting dog. One more thing I must add, I hope that you will also get her Utility Tested and put a MH (or at least have MH legs) on her before she's bred.

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Postby orhunter » Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:53 pm

Deciding to breed, based on a single individual from a litter of many, is irresponsible. Might be, you own the best dog in a litter of duds. If this is the case, more than likely, any litters from your dog, may contain an unusual number of duds no matter what the quality of the male she is bred to. Looking closely at your dogs ancestors is where your investigation should be concentrated. Finding a good male is secondary to everything you don't know about your dogs ancestory. The color of your dog doesn't mean a thing as compared to everything else.
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Postby Blue Weim Mom » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:57 pm

Well, I can't say anything about what her family tree has "produced"
There are NO titles through the AKC, and nothing on file with NAVHDA.
I know that her color was an intentional breeding. As both parents were blue. Blue is a dominant-recessive color. So I am wanting to get some "alphabets" added to her pedigree before I truly condider the breeding because of the seeming lack in her pedigree. Does that make sense?
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Postby Flyingm » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:39 am

Blue Weim Mom,

Just my 2 cents worth: You would most likely be better served by spaying your young bitch and enjoying her love, companionship, and hunting prowess for many years to come.

Anyway, congratulations on your young weim!
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Postby Mn John » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:59 am

I would echo the advice of JB, your bitch may turn out to be a great hunting dog. But we only see half of a given dogs genetic, the other half is hidden and can be passed on just as easily. As a wemianener owner I am impressed with your zeal for the breed, and the breed could use more people like you. If you realy want to improve the breed (and in my opinnion if you don't you have no businees breeding dogs), build on your knowledge and find a gray weimaraner pup from proven hunting lines, then test and prove that dog, then breed.

One last point, in most cases, and with very few expection, most of us can buy great hunting dog much cheaper than we can breed one.

Good luck, and have fun;
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Postby VersatileRookie » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:40 pm

There's always the argument that someone has to be willing to give it a shot. If you ran a kennel it might be worth tinkering with. Work with a good vet and get health clearances. Maybe keep all the pups test, fix, and sell or give the dogs away after they've had thier health clearances. Possibly after a few litters done in this fashon you might be on to something.

The folks back in the day had kennels with multiple dogs to mess with, and we dont hear of all the failures. In all the different breed history's Ive read, there is lost time and uncertainties. But today there are test proven pedigrees, and the numbers of certain breeds may be small, but they are around. IMO, don't mess with it if she doesn't come from proven lines.
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Postby hicntry » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:35 pm

Question....how many giving advise are breeders or have any desire to breed?
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Postby VersatileRookie » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:32 am

Im not a breeder and I have no desire to do so.
Dog Breeding should be done by folks that are knowledgable and have Worthy Specimens
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To Breed...

Postby bill10979 » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:14 pm

You are in the 1% of Weims(in that yours can actually hunt) a sad commentary on the breed really. I see this as somewhat of a plus for you.
When folks bring up color this or that-I cringe. Owners of performance dogs should have little concern for this. Grey or blue matters not, to hunters.
Can it hunt? Is it cooperative/tractable? Nose, Point, Retrieve(water) and Tracking. Is she a good representative of the breed as its originators envisioned? Physical standard? Hips/bite? The lineage of your dog is helpful in evaluations-a one litter wonder Id try to avoid a breeding to.
Is she truly versatile-not saying you have to blood track her, but it wouldnt hurt. How is she on fur? Waterfowl? People? Id think a Navhda breeding is best bet, MC Tuna on this board has some nice versatile hunters. Might be a good place to start is with him or your Navhda chapter.
Titles help, but arent the end all be all, IMO. They are more helpful in evaluations certainly. For me, a Navhda registry would be my primary focus. There is more dedication there, overall. The AKC has ruined the Weim and many others for all intents and purposes.. Go with yor gut, but be objective and honest. If she can help better the hunting Weim after answering yes to the above questions, Id diligently look for a male to compliment her-both strengths and weaknesses. Every dog has them, so be honest with yourself. Hope this helps, and why I like the VDD and the German system-its a "Cooperative" that tests all the above, thereby elimiating otherwise deficient stock.
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Postby anne » Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:53 pm

From one Blue owner to another.....

Wait and see before you make a decision about this. She is still young. Get her broke and see how she handles the process. See if you can get some advanced titles on her as a broke dog. Get some experienced folks to help evaluate her as well, not only her hunting ability but her conformation. Make sure you know exactly where her strengths and weaknesses are.

Go to other events and take a critical look at the other dogs out there. I would even suggest going to the Nationals or at least a Regional to see the elite of the breed and where she stacks up against them.

Do research on her and her family. It's going to be VERY hard. I was extremely fortunate in that I was able to track down health issues and only because I had the help of 2 reputable breeders from my bitch's local area have I been able to identify possible issues. I went back many generations in her pedigree and spent lots of time with it. But with so many unknowns it was hard. I got lucky.

Ask yourself if you can take the flack you may get if you do this. Many people do not believe in breeding disqualifying faults no matter what.

One of your big problems is going to be to find a good stud. Most gray dog owners are not going to give stud service if they have awesome dogs, they're just not going to risk their reputation. You may have to go to another unknown dog, and you might be introducing disease recessives or temperament issues or a myriad of other problems.

My advice to you is to wait and see. See how she matures and turns out. Then get her out there so people can see her, if you have a truly great hunting dog, there may be some open minded gray dog owners that will breed to her. If you aren't out there showcasing her, no one is going to take your word for it that she's a great dog.

As a Blue advocate I would plead with you to think through all the issues, and, if you are challenged, to be able to back up the breeding with sound reasoning. Blue breeders need to step up to the plate if Blues are to get any respect. So find yourself some mentors, become knowledgable about the breed, become knowledgable about hunting dogs and please do it for the right reasons -- for the betterment of the breed.

I am struggling with this issue myself. I know how hard it is.

Anne
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Postby anne » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:02 pm

Also, I agree about breeding unknowns, one litter wonders, proven lineage etc. I personally would only consider breeding to a stud of known and proven dogs. The fact is, the idea of breeding a Blue most likely means a bit of re-invention of the wheel, and "breeding up." But I believe that good Blue representatives of the breed can make a positive impact on the breed as a whole. And only because of the particular circumstances that I think Weims in general are in right now... two distinct narrow gene pools and the health issues that go hand in hand with that...
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Postby Blue Weim Mom » Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:37 am

Thanks Anne. I completely agree with all that you express. With the way she is now, i have had some very reputable trainers say she is going to do EXTREMELY well, in both tests and hunting in the field. It was at the recommendation of a trainer that I prusue NAVHDA testing, and getting her started on her JH. They felt that she would excel quite nicely... So at their advice I've done just that. With that said, they also feel that if she does show her skills, and receives her UT, and works up to her MH, that if a dog who is also proven, this would be a good breeding pair. So this has put me on the fence. I actually would have chosen a male dog. i have had better luck in behavior, and basic home obedience. But, that decision wasn't only mine to make. My fiance prefers the female. So. a female it was. I have talked with several people in my area who are weim owners, and some are breeders too. And they have been positive with my prospect of her being bred. But, they all have SEEN her preform to one extent or another.
I have taken the comments given here seriously! This is not something I want to do next week, or even within the next year. But, I want to get my "ducks in a row" in every way I can.
Some people I have read on another thread on this sight seem to have the idea that a blue cannot hunt. Or at the very least hunt well. With that idea in someone's head, along with the blue color being a SHOW RING disqualification, people are very predjuce to the blue. But, here is my line of thought on that.....
If you have a GSP, from a good line, and it comes out black and white, that color combination IS disqualifying. Does this make it a bad dog? NO! Does that mean it can't breed? NO! But, will/can it be a proven, trialed and tested fantastic hunt, and field dog? YES!

This is just my take on how people seem to be so negative on blue
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Postby VersatileRookie » Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:30 pm

Color shouldn't mean squat. If folks were concerned with looks, the versatiles would still remain in Europe. To many, wire coats are an eye sore. That's a good thing, I believe. Wiems wouldn't have a problem if they had beards, at least not as many.

While you are getting your ducks in a row, don't forget to have fun with her.
Dog Breeding should be done by folks that are knowledgable and have Worthy Specimens
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Postby DK dreams » Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:50 am

Rookie, as it seems your name really implies alot about you. Be care not to step on too many toes while making your assessments. This is a family board and we all need to be friends if we are to support and help each other in the betterment of the versitile breeds. I would never insult your breed or your personal dog, please don't do so to others.
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