A litter vom Herbstmond

Genetics, breeding, birth defects, diseases, etc. (No litter listings)

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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:02 pm

Sorry for the delayed response, we had a late night stall and an early morning C-section yesterday. 7 pups born natural, 2 by C-section, one dead before surgery the other made it through but it was touch and go the first 8 hours. 4 girls and 4 boys!!

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Girls, all black:
Image

Boys, 3 brown, 1 black:
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Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
Harvest Moon Drahthaars- vom Herbstmond
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby ryanr » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:42 am

Congratulations, cute little devils.
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby cohanzick creek » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:05 am

congratulations on pups good luck
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby hicntry » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:21 pm

Glad it turned out all right. Eight is enough.
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby hicntry » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:51 pm

" I'm excited about doing things the right way, and thought I'd share along the way."

MissK, I am equally interested in what the right way is also. Are you going to use the super dog program? If so, you have been doing it for 5 days so far. I/we are really interested in actualy what you are doing. Do you keep a weight record of the pups daily or what?
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby JASmith » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:57 am

So cute. I didn't expect them to look like baby dalmations. :) Is that common for DD?
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby orhunter » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:34 am

DD/GWP, WPG all started out white and dark spotted. Roan, ticking doesn't kick in for a few weeks.

Dang I love the little guys.
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:02 am

hicntry wrote:" I'm excited about doing things the right way, and thought I'd share along the way."

MissK, I am equally interested in what the right way is also. Are you going to use the super dog program? If so, you have been doing it for 5 days so far. I/we are really interested in actualy what you are doing. Do you keep a weight record of the pups daily or what?


The C-section puppy got chilled and nearly died on Saturday. I'm now spending my free time bottle feeding her every 2 hours. All my plans for super puppy program have gone out the window as I spend every waking free moment and a lot of moments I should be sleeping trying to keep this one alive. She's had two opportunities to die and fought through, so I'm fighting too. I'm planning on keeping her until I'm sure she's developmentally normal. One of the male pups got crushed, took an elbow to the head and couldn't be resuscitated.

Whelping in a dog box and waiting to see how many walk out is starting to sound grand!! Certainly less work and a helluva lot less stressful.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
Harvest Moon Drahthaars- vom Herbstmond
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:24 am

Here's a photo of the healthy 6. I was surprised to see the difference in size amongst the litter, but all are growing well. The all you can eat milk bar is serving them well. I stopped tracking weights on day 3 when they were exceeding minimum growth rates by double.

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Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
Harvest Moon Drahthaars- vom Herbstmond
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby hicntry » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:08 pm

Something for you to think about. Healthy pups are always active from the time they hit the ground. This is your first litter and you are spending a lot of time trying to save a weak puppy. If you manage to save it, you owe it to yourself to keep it so you learn from it. It will never measure up to the healthy pups of the litter. Once you watch that pup with the others as it gets older, you will realize that. Saving the weak does the pup no favor, does the breed no favor, and does any possible owners no favor.
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:01 am

hicntry wrote:Something for you to think about. Healthy pups are always active from the time they hit the ground. This is your first litter and you are spending a lot of time trying to save a weak puppy. If you manage to save it, you owe it to yourself to keep it so you learn from it. It will never measure up to the healthy pups of the litter. Once you watch that pup with the others as it gets older, you will realize that. Saving the weak does the pup no favor, does the breed no favor, and does any possible owners no favor.


The pup is weak because of poor oxygen during birth, not genetics. There's an associated syndrome that she should recover fully from thanks to the immaturity of her nervous system and that is why she's worth the effort. I just need to get enough calories into her so she can catch up.

Ive seen plenty of genetic messed that were better off without the extra nurturing, so I absolutely get where you are coming from. I'm not sure if I would put this much effort into a puppy that was more obviously fading rather than having been in distress (low heart rate on ultrasound) prior to C-section.

I will absolutely keep her if there's any question about her hunting ability.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
Harvest Moon Drahthaars- vom Herbstmond
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby hicntry » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:06 pm

"I will absolutely keep her if there's any question about her hunting ability."

I was referring to the health of the pup....not the hunting ability. Can you tell anything about the hunting ability at 7 or 8 weeks old? You should keep the pup regardless....you will be surprised at, as a first time breeder, what you can learn about saving pups that mother nature would have claimed without human intervention that you won't learn in vet school.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby JONOV » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:45 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:Here's a photo of the healthy 6. I was surprised to see the difference in size amongst the litter, but all are growing well.

When I saw Gus' litter at 3 or 4 weeks I noticed that too. Gus seemed to be half the size of a couple of them. But, he pushed his way through to the food dish and he came right up to my fiance. FWIW, he's now 52 lbs at 7 months old.
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby runningdogs » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:56 am

From a non-breeder and a non-hunter, they are darling. Congratulations and best of luck. I've done many many bottle feeders over the years. Exhausting...
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Re: A litter vom Herbstmond

Postby jlw034 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:22 pm

That first pic makes me think "Ugh, I'm missing hunting season for this???"

haha, beautiful pups.
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