What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:14 pm

Haha!! That's a great one! I'm gonna save that one?
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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby hicntry » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:34 pm

So, what it comes down to, Steve is the only one that has contributed anything of interest, or pertinence, regarding "mother lines". Everyone else contributed best guess', assumptions etc....including myself. Going over Steve's info, I would say nobody today would have a clue, or be capable of, developing a line of dogs based on mother lines." Now, if I were a betting man, I would say smart money would have to be put on the opinion of the person that bred those two pedigrees' that were posted. Only a handful of people in the world could come close to producing those pedigrees and they are not participating in the discussion. New breeds have been developed on about half of what is seen on those pedigrees considering there is 7 more generations in front of the 6 shown.
:lol: :lol:
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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby STait » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:24 pm

I agree and wish there were more breeders with the same experience as the OP;-) I have a question even though it doesn't have anything to do with mother lines.

Don, have you ever picked a specific female pup for future breeding (of course you have)?? If you did, why?? Was the only reason to try and have the "right" vehicle to produce the "right" male?
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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby hicntry » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:27 pm

Tall order Steve. LOL I think the only way to approach it is from the beginning. Original dogs, Nate and Elizabeth produced Winchester and Reminton. Acquired Katie Sandhill and bred Reminton to Katie. Never used Reminton in the program again. Produced 16 pups and got Higgins and got rid of Katie. Bred Higgins back to his grandmother, Elizabeth, and kept 3 nice females. Bred Winchester across all 3 females.One could take note that almost every female was produced by Winchester, Higgins, or one of their male offspring. I was challenged to run my dogs against the best in the Airedale Field Nationals by the national breed club, They set the highest standard in the clubs 22 year history. Odin was the 2007 National Master Fur dog.....and I never bred him. My tips on longevity in a line. Count the pups, put the lid on the box outside and don't even look at them. Count em again when they come out of the box. Survival of the fittest. If it is puny litter, get rid of the female. If your male isn't dominate enough to breed a female without help, get rid of the male. If the female has trouble whelping or isn't a good mother, get rid of her. Just kind of the gist of if.
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby hicntry » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:34 pm

Now for all that have their doubts, I give you

Genesis 1.28

And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.'

I believe that should just about cover it. :angel: :angel:
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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby STait » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:43 pm

Fantastic, what you wrote there tells me in short your whole program. It would take me a looonng time of analyzing your pedigrees to determine what you posted in those few sentences. Thanks

I will tell you I cannot abide by all of your tips as my best female has small litters (4-6). But her daughter had 9 on her first litter so there's hope.
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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby STait » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:45 pm

You got in your biblical post before I could post, but it was referring to your previous one;-)
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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby hicntry » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:07 pm

Steve, honestly, not many people could follow all that advice. I know it. Just things to keep in mind when making decisions. Most have to do with the nature of things that require a line to survive when bred to this extreme. Pretty much a zero tolerance....but how many are going to breed like that?

The biblical quote?? That was to point out that chauvanism has nothing to do with anything. It's been this way since biblical times and seem to work pretty well I think. :lol: :lol:
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby STait » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:47 pm

hicntry wrote:Tall order Steve. LOL I think the only way to approach it is from the beginning. Original dogs, Nate and Elizabeth produced Winchester and Reminton. Acquired Katie Sandhill and bred Reminton to Katie. Never used Reminton in the program again. Produced 16 pups and got Higgins and got rid of Katie. Bred Higgins back to his grandmother, Elizabeth, and kept 3 nice females. Bred Winchester across all 3 females.One could take note that almost every female was produced by Winchester, Higgins, or one of their male offspring. I was challenged to run my dogs against the best in the Airedale Field Nationals by the national breed club, They set the highest standard in the clubs 22 year history. Odin was the 2007 National Master Fur dog.....and I never bred him. My tips on longevity in a line. Count the pups, put the lid on the box outside and don't even look at them. Count em again when they come out of the box. Survival of the fittest. If it is puny litter, get rid of the female. If your male isn't dominate enough to breed a female without help, get rid of the male. If the female has trouble whelping or isn't a good mother, get rid of her. Just kind of the gist of if.


I reread this Don, and I think it hints that you have kept the same mother-line (Elizabeth) from the beginning.;-):-0
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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby hicntry » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:24 pm

LOL, only by default Steve. Libby happened to be Winchester and Reminton's mom. That being the case, since everything comes down to those two males, she pretty much has to be the mother line. A normal pedigree would have a lot more of both females and males on it. I guess that equally makes Nate the father line....so which is the line built on? Nate or Libby. LOL Now, here is the thing about both of them. Neither them , nor their ancestry had ever seen a hunting field. They were both long time show dogs. Libby was heavily show and goes back to the all time great show dogs in the Airedale world. Would have been a pretty sorry choice to build a working line on for dangerous game. Another myth in the dog world debunked. You can take a sow's ear and make a silk purse. It is all about choices.
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby STait » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:59 pm

Yep, that's what I keep trying to pound into people's head. IT'S ALL ABOUT PROPER SELECTION!!!!

Thank you
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Re: What is a "motherline" What is the importance if any

Postby BrewsterAndMutt » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:31 pm

You know, in the wild, with the males fighting over females it's easy to see they're strength and genes they must be passing on and to think the females don't contribute anything but realistically the female has an even harder job than the males. Not only does she have a choice on who she breeds with and the ability to test his worthiness but he only has to do that for a month or two a year. She then has to get enough food over winter to not only survive but support a pregnancy, give birth, make sure she has enough food to support her offspring, make sure her offspring don't get killed, and make sure she doenst get killed herself. Mean while during this time the male has to just worry about himself. If the female isn't fit enough to raise her offspring to adult hood where they can then breed and pass on their genes then her genes don't get passed on. Her genes matter just as much as the males, her fitness isn't just shown off as obviously as two males beating each other senseless over a female.
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