High Country lives on

Genetics, breeding, birth defects, diseases, etc. (No litter listings)

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Re: High Country lives on

Postby hicntry » Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:53 pm

Steve, a lot of people have figured them over the years ....and came up with all kinds of numbers. I don't remember them because I don't consider them relevant.

All you got to do is look at the pups. The big rule of thumb is to count them when they hit the ground, and forget they are there until the start coming out of the box. Countem then and that will tell how good the breeding was. Smaller litters is what most people don't want. They would rather sacrifice dynamite dogs for dollars is what it boils down to

I am dead set against the standard advice given to new breeders. That advice is "Universally" find a mentor. Worst advice I have ever seen. At best, you are going to breed the same level of dogs the mentor has. What is the point?
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby jlw034 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 2:03 pm

hicntry wrote:
Vets and many others say that inbreeding ruins the immune system. Trust me, nothing depresses an immune system more that all the vaccinations a dog gets from the vets. For the last 20 years I never had a dog at the vets, and, as inbred as my dogs are, they lived 30% longer without vets care. Not hard to explain is it.


I've never been a fan of giving a big load of vaccines at one time.

Just curious, what vaccines do you give your dogs?
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby Densa44 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:07 pm

Here is some information on the immune system and other genetically linked illnesses in dogs. It is a testing service offered by the Vet school at UC Davis in California.

It also shows the common inherited illnesses in certain breeds of dogs.

https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/dog.php
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby hicntry » Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:26 pm

jlw034 wrote:
hicntry wrote:
Vets and many others say that inbreeding ruins the immune system. Trust me, nothing depresses an immune system more that all the vaccinations a dog gets from the vets. For the last 20 years I never had a dog at the vets, and, as inbred as my dogs are, they lived 30% longer without vets care. Not hard to explain is it.


I've never been a fan of giving a big load of vaccines at one time.

Just curious, what vaccines do you give your dogs?


JLW I give the first 5 way and the next two 7 ways and never give another.
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:08 pm

I was about to get Into rare livestock breeds many years ago, and many of the rare breed groups are trying for low COI. The problem with that is - with a low starting population, eventually everything is related and you've removed the opportunity to outcross later.

Many of the books recommended intelligent line breeding, and having a (often regional) purpose for your line - such as thicker coats for northern climate, or hooves strong enough for rocky ground.

Line breeding only enhances the bad if you continue to breed to it. Out crosses allow for numerous recessives to be passed on without recognition.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby hicntry » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:24 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:I was about to get Into rare livestock breeds many years ago, and many of the rare breed groups are trying for low COI. The problem with that is - with a low starting population, eventually everything is related and you've removed the opportunity to outcross later.

Many of the books recommended intelligent line breeding, and having a (often regional) purpose for your line - such as thicker coats for northern climate, or hooves strong enough for rocky ground.

Line breeding only enhances the bad if you continue to breed to it. Out crosses allow for numerous recessives to be passed on without recognition.


One of the very reasons I went to DDR lines that came from behind the iron curtain. They were line bred and weren't mixed with the western dog populations. The dog was ugly by my standards, to soft by my standards, but, they had the genetics and I knew I could quickly over ride what they had to offer.
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby hicntry » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:48 am

Had 7 pups this morning. The guy was getting worried but he is going to be fine. LOL Asked him how many of each and he said he didn't look. I told him good, because they will be the same when he cuts tails in a couple of days. I told him to just forget they are there and count em again when they start walking. I think he is going to do just fine. Dan did say one pup was quite a bit smaller so we will wait and see. HC Cowboy is an 11 generation dog so these pups are 13 generation if we don't go back and count HC Gunner , the great grandfather, Count him and we are at 14 generations here, possibly 15 generation but I would have to see their pedigree to be sure.
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:10 pm

Cool. Does the Breeder hunt the Bitch and if so on what?
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby hicntry » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:19 pm

AverageGuy wrote:Cool. Does the Breeder hunt the Bitch and if so on what?


No doesn't hunt the bitch. He is going to try to place some of the pups with hunters. Actually he is an obedience trainer. This is his first litter of anything. Because of the breeding style it isn't the end of the world anyway. The mother of this pup was never hunted either but is HC bred.

http://youtu.be/sKqWPXL8XxQ
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby hicntry » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:52 pm

Dan sent a picture of the pups. Not very good but...
Image
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby hicntry » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:34 pm

Pups all looking great!
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby hicntry » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:35 pm

This may be a good time for Densa to exlplain how how prepotent males come into being since he is obviously opposed to breeding like I do. It would be nice to know how much the opposing side really understands past what they have read.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby hicntry » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:28 pm

Pups are 1 1/2 weeks old and are doing great.
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby hicntry » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:51 pm

Pups are all sold. The breeder called me this morning and gave me the run down. Pups were born outside. Not handled for the first four weeks and very little after that. Sold the last 3 this last weekend at 12 weeks. The pups had never been in a house. Friday he put them in crates for the first time to take them to a dog washing facility and none threw a fit in the crate. First time away from his yard and strangers bathed them. They had no problem with the strangers or the new bath. Yesterday, he met the buyers at a park. They chased the guy running a blower all over. He raised them pretty much the way I told him ....which he was a bit nervous about not socializing them more. He now understands, and believes, that strong dogs don't need socialization like many pups being produced today. Some buyers have reported back and said the pups took over the house as soon as they were put down. He is a happy camper.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: High Country lives on

Postby STait » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:01 pm

Congrats to both him and you for your breeding. My guess is you knew exactly how they would turn out, behavior wise?
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