Socialization

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Re: Socialization

Postby licklick » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:22 pm

Hicntry, I can not find anyone except you talking about need for "extreme amounts" or even "lot" of socialization in this thread.
I am thinking of posting a really provocative question: how important is food for the dog? And then, everyone who say dogs need to eat will be branded newbie idiots who have no idea and no clue. Brainwashed maniacs trying to feed their dogs to fatness or to death. Especially those dam veterinarians. And I will post a ton of video and pictures of my dog without food in his mouth but still alive, just to prove my point. Could be entertaining, what do you think?
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Re: Socialization

Postby hicntry » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:32 pm

Does it bother you that I will go against popular belief and tell people that a lot of dogs don't really need much in the way of socialization? Will it help if I do an about face and point out that there is an extremely large percentage of dogs that you can socialize until the cows come home and they will still be spooks because it won't over ride bad genetics? I think you should start a "What do you feed or not feed, your dog" thread. It is always a popular topic....and yes, pictures would be nice. :wink:
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Re: Socialization

Postby licklick » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:45 pm

I will go against popular belief and tell people that a lot of dogs don't really need much in the way of socialization

That's not against popular belief. That is popular belief. You are not rebelling against it. You are saying same thing everyone else is saying.
there is an extremely large percentage of dogs that you can socialize until the cows come home and they will still be spooks because it won't over ride bad genetics

between 8 and 16 weeks... Approximately. Depending on the dog. After 16 weeks, give or take, it is not socialization anymore. It is desperate and often hopeless attempt to fix dog's problems. If you watched Misskiwis' video instead of throwing around your weight of decades of breeding and thousands of puppies raising, you might have noticed that this was exactly what was said in the video. Almost word for word repeating what you are saying.
Nothing new for me except socializing my pups to 50-150 other dogs. No way in hell would I expose a young puppy to 50 other dogs

The 50 to 150 dogs caught me by surprise as well. I ignored it like we all have to do with a lot of dog training advice

50 or 150 sounds ridiculously high? Realistically, its ridiculously low. First, nobody ever said the puppy should meet 150 dogs at once, at the same time. It is 150 dogs over the period of socialization, which is ~8 weeks. And it is not necessarily nose to nose contacts. Encounters at a distance also count (I don't know, maybe across the street on the opposite sidewalk as long as your puppy is aware of the other dog). I don't need decades of breeder experience to do a very simple math. 8 weeks of socialization = 56 days. x 3 walks a day = 168 walks. If, on average, I with my puppy meet just 1 dog per walk, it will be still more than 150. Secondly, if you ever take your pup to obedience trial event, or a dog show, or off leash city areas, he will meet 150 dogs there within an hour, easily. Or more than 150 within an hour. I am not saying this is required for socialization. I am saying it is not unbelievable or impossible or surprizing. Simply because this is what happens in the real world, whether you like it or ignore it.
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Re: Socialization

Postby licklick » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:23 pm

Forgot to attach the picture of my 7 months old un-socialized dog meeting a man with photo camera.
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Re: Socialization

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:46 pm

licklick wrote:Forgot to attach the picture of my 7 months old un-socialized dog meeting a man with photo camera.


Nice. It's the little things that can make life a pain in the ass. Now she needs desensitized.
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Re: Socialization

Postby STait » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:25 pm

Licklick, it's not ridiculously low, it's just ridiculous. You do the math however you want, I couldn't care less. My pups are socialized dog-dog, with my pack, and a few of my close neighbors dogs, I don't have to worry about them getting sick when they're little pups before they have any vaccinations because my dogs don't get sick. All my dogs run with strange dogs when they get older in field trials and other training ventures. They don't show their teeth like yours because they are bred right and socialized correctly. In fact, by nature they are high spirited loners when they get in the field with other dogs. They have only one thing on their mind and that is to hunt and find birds. You won't see them tagging other dogs or giving one $#*! about any other dogs;-) You would be amazed what good breeding can create.

Too bad your 7 month old pup has that behavioral issue.
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Re: Socialization

Postby hicntry » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:45 pm

licklick wrote:Forgot to attach the picture of my 7 months old un-socialized dog meeting a man with photo camera.


Now, that dog's aggression is fear based. The dog isn't even pulling on the GAL's arm that is holding it. An aggressive dog would have pulled her arm off for the bite. Is that your arm LickLick. Yellow top blue bottoms. LOL
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Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

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Re: Socialization

Postby licklick » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:04 am

My pups are socialized dog-dog, with my pack, and a few of my close neighbors dogs, I don't have to worry about them getting sick when they're little pups before they have any vaccinations because my dogs don't get sick. All my dogs run with strange dogs when they get older in field trials and other training ventures. They don't show their teeth like yours because they are bred right and socialized correctly. In fact, by nature they are high spirited loners when they get in the field with other dogs

That's nice. In those training venues, how your dogs spend their off field time? Are they sitting or laying on some mats in the shadow or just on the grass? or in kennels? You know, when you set up training grounds: planting birds, laying tracks, hiding ducks. What your dogs do?
They have only one thing on their mind and that is to hunt and find birds.

That can be fixed, relatively easily. With little patience, persistence, lot of encouragement and training.
that dog's aggression is fear based

Yes, I guess. Somehow, it went away on its own.
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Re: Socialization

Postby STait » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:18 am

licklick, this is a hunting dog website. Do you and your dogs hunt, or do you have any experience past a newbie pet ownership?? From your comments/questions I have to suspect you are either new to dog ownership or an internet troll. Which is it??
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Re: Socialization

Postby hicntry » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:37 am

Not much point in continuing this thread now that we have two of em Steve.....who knows....they may be a team.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: Socialization

Postby hicntry » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:57 am

Oh, I almost forgot these to examples of lack of socialization Picked up at the same time from two different litters. Tested over two days by the State of Ca. for a program working with disadvantaged kids. Passed the test at 15 months. The male in the picture with the kids hanging on him is the product of a mother/son cross. Yep, only has one head. LOL They spend 3 days a week going to different schools to work in So Ca. The state insures both dogs.

Image

Here is another picture of those same dogs. Could really be a train wreck had the been properly socialized. LOL
Image
Last edited by hicntry on Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: Socialization

Postby ryanr » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:58 am

HiC, in one of your posts here you mentioned you felt dogs just needed exposure vs lots of socialization. I've always considered socialization to be a part of exposure. I don't really see it as one versus the other.
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Re: Socialization

Postby hicntry » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:16 am

ryanr wrote:HiC, in one of your posts here you mentioned you felt dogs just needed exposure vs lots of socialization. I've always considered socialization to be a part of exposure. I don't really see it as one versus the other.


It is exposure Ryan. That is all it is. Calling it socialization is what screws it up. People seem to think they have to screw with pups 24/7 to what? Socialize them. Those pups need to be outside in a secure yard....by themselves. Yes, they will pee on the lawn, chew plants, dig holes. The worst thing in the world to do with a new pup is bring it home and give it freedom in the house. Put it on a dog bed and sit for a while and make it stay there. Has to be done while your house is a new place to the pup. You never teach a pup[ to fetch or chase balls in the house. all you do is teach the pup that the house is where you run and act crazy. That is how you teach "restraint".....not by physically restraining. Give the pups some space to be pups. Leave just a touch of mystique and pups will want to be with you because they still find you interesting.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: Socialization

Postby licklick » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:15 am

licklick, this is a hunting dog website. Do you and your dogs hunt, or do you have any experience past a newbie pet ownership?? From your comments/questions I have to suspect you are either new to dog ownership or an internet troll. Which is it??

yes, me and my dog hunt. can't say I love it, but the GAL and the dog are having a blast.
P2.jpg

P1.jpg

And yes, I am still new. Not sure which question offended you STait, but that was not my intention.
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Re: Socialization

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:48 am

hicntry wrote:Not much point in continuing this thread now that we have two of em Steve.....who knows....they may be a team.


That's funny considering I've never seen a photo of your dogs actually hunting. Maybe a couple of your pups in new homes, but not yours...
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