Socialization

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Socialization

Postby hicntry » Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:43 pm

How important is socialization to young pups?
Last edited by hicntry on Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Socializatin

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:42 pm

Critical
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Re: Socialization

Postby licklick » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:50 pm

Seeing how badly my dog is messed up because of the lack of socialization, I say very critical. Criticallest.
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Re: Socialization

Postby STait » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:18 am

From 4 weeks on it is very important IMO.
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Re: Socialization

Postby hicntry » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:32 am

Maybe "socialization" should be defined. It could mean different things to different people. What exactly is socialization when it comes to young pups"
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Re: Socialization

Postby STait » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:58 pm

For me it is simple, just getting them out in the yard where they can investigate new surroundings and earthy things. . I want them to get used to my voice, my smell, Getting other people of all sizes around them several times a week seems to be good for human socialization too. My last litter had 8 healthy pups, all very uniform in size, and I would check on them a couple times a day, basically when I fed Mom. I tried to be quiet when in the kennel but one pup at 2 1/2 weeks old (the last born, and smallest), shortly after his ears and eyes opened, could hear me (no matter how quiet I tried to be) and would jump up and greet me at the door of the dog house they were in. Just as bold as could be with tail high and wagging. I don't know if it comes from their natural instinct as pack animals to be so social with humans, or if maybe we've bred that into them. By the way, he stayed in my kennel and is now 6 months old;-)
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Re: Socialization

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:50 pm

Socialization = exposure to things they will be interacting with as adult dogs.

For city dogs, this is different textures of ground, open stairs, baseball fields, crowds, garbage trucks, skin tones, hats, umbrellas and wheelchairs.

For most dogs it means vet visits where vets stick things in ears, mouth and rectums.

For hunting dogs it means field, forest and water. My pit bull barks at sticks floating in the water. She doesn't understand what they are even after 3 years of having a pond in the back yard. She wasn't "socialized" to that situation.

Fear exists on a spectrum. Socialization improves tolerance to unique situations for even dogs prone to fear. Some dogs are naturally confident enough that they will thrive going from farm to city without as much socialization. In general, all dogs fare better and show less fear under stress when socialization was performed properly. Socialization provides the dogs the tools to understand and cope with the world.
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Re: Socialization

Postby STait » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:54 pm

What about this scinario, a friend was looking at buying a pup from two all age champions. Great breeding right, but he had previously seen the bitch at a trial and when he approached her, she shied away from him. Odd for a pointer! He didn't think anything of it but I reminded him about it when he told me he was buying a pup out of her. I told him I would pass because of her behavior, but what do I know. He got a male pup and all it wanted to do when running with other dogs was tag them. Took him about 2 years to get him over it, but he has found that his pup, now 3, will only run as big as his brace mate in the field. Anyway, I would say no amount of socializing would have helped him or his mother.
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Re: Socialization

Postby licklick » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:18 pm

I would also define socialization as exposure to various stimuli. Sites, sights, terrains, sounds, objects moving and stationary, dogs of all kinds, non-dog species of all kinds, scents, touch, weather, enclosed spaces, open spaces, etc. Also, interaction with animated and inanimate objects: petting, fighting, chasing, running away, playing with, hiding under, and so on.
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Re: Socialization

Postby ANick » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:37 pm

hicntry wrote:How important is socialization to young pups?


Very.

Socialization, to socialize with others. In the case of pups, that'd be people and other dogs in as many circumstances as possible. Ball games, hardware stores, parks, the neighbors (may you be blessed with good neighbors), sidewalks, training days, vet's office, pet stores, boat launches, etc., etc. Any place you can go, anyone you can meet, including cycle cops (an elk hunter btw) or the mail person. Neighborhood dogs, as well the other pups at training. Strangers (dog peoples) checking teeth and feet.. and Herself collecting belly rubs.

Social skills. How to interact with individuals (people or dogs primarily).

Environmental exposures are important, and do include socialization 'events' as environments, but are introductions to marshes, woods, big water, surf, tall grass, open plains, barbed wire, livestock... places that the pup might be later on (or not) and things in those environments.

Environmental exposure being more a learning how to function or carry out tasks assigned in those environments.
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Re: Socialization

Postby vman » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:33 am

Socialization is EXTREMELY important. All comments so far in support are spot on. But it seems to be aimed at the new owners. Socialization starts at the BREEDER while they are still a pack of pups. If the breeder does not socialize his pups very well then let him/her deal with them.
I am a very firm believer that pups should be raised outdoors as much as possible after 4weeks of age. As a Trainer for the public, lack of socialization by the breeders is my number one problem to overcome. It is the difference between breeders and Great Breeders.
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Re: Socialization

Postby hicntry » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:27 am

" Socialization starts at the BREEDER while they are still a pack of pups."

Now we are getting to the meat of it. The breeder has a 4 to 6 week window to shape those pups. Not really much time, but, it will have a lasting effect on those pups lives. The key advantage the breeder has is that he has a "pack of pups". The buyer doesn't. So, what is the advantage of working a pack rather than a single individual? Here is a hint.....the socialization isn't really that important to the really confident pups. With that in mind, which pups do you think it benefits the most? Why?
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Re: Socialization

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:01 am

Socialization occurs between 3 and 16 weeks. This means owners have twice as much time to expose their dogs, as well as a better idea of what their needs will be as adults.

It has been shown that pups that remain with their littermates longer are more confident and less prone to fear and anxiety.

Here's a socialization checklist - http://www.ultimatepuppy.com/up_site/wp ... _schedule/

and a breakdown of social development http://ice.ucdavis.edu/~robyn/Korina/BC ... pment.html
Last edited by Misskiwi67 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Socialization

Postby vman » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:25 am

Socialization occurs between 3 and 16 weeks. This means owners have twice as much time to expose their dogs, as well as a better idea of what their needs will be as adults.


I did not read the link yet. You are correct on the owners but it still starts with the Breeder. My pups are raised outside in Scott Kennels. Here is a short list of what happens when a pup is raised outside rather than cooped up in a building.
The see/hear their first thunderstorm as a litter with momma. My pups are never scared of T/L
They see lawnmowers, leaf blowers,Harleys,Tractors,horses,ATVs,children,dogs,adults, all as a litter. They learn to go potty on the grass rather than doing their business on the floor{paper}. My pups are basically housebroke when they leave at 8 weeks. Plus no chemicals, only fresh air. My dogs do not have allergies.
They learn to swim as a litter. They go for rides as a litter. They will each sleep in a crate several nights before going home. They will sleep all night with no whining or fussing. They learn to explore. They hear distant gunfire{blank} They are introduced to birds. They learn to track and point.
And if all the above has not been done they do not leave.
Now when the new owners pick up their pup, it is not the first time in a car alone. It is not the first time away from the litter. IT is not the first time it has seen children. It is not the first time sleeping in a crate alone. IT is not the first time it has seen another strange dog.Not the first time for a bath or swimming. Not the first time it sees or hears Thunder and lightning. Not the first time it has seen stairs.
I could keep going but you get the drift. It all starts here and outside where they belong by the BREEDER.
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Re: Socialization

Postby licklick » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:49 am

hicntry wrote:" Socialization starts at the BREEDER while they are still a pack of pups."

Now we are getting to the meat of it. The breeder has a 4 to 6 week window to shape those pups. Not really much time, but, it will have a lasting effect on those pups lives. The key advantage the breeder has is that he has a "pack of pups". The buyer doesn't. So, what is the advantage of working a pack rather than a single individual? Here is a hint.....the socialization isn't really that important to the really confident pups. With that in mind, which pups do you think it benefits the most? Why?

I think what you are getting to, is that socialization is really important to sissy weak woos puppies, who are not going to stand for themselves in work, training or interaction with other dogs. Or with other people, including owner. You probably have a good point there.
However, socialization is much more than just building a confidence in a pack during puppyhood, although its importance is obvious. When adult dog meets other dogs and people, he is usually long ago out of his puppy pack. His social status is uncertain with every new interaction with other dogs. He just has to get into starring contests, growling contests, fighting with other dogs to get experience how to do all those things. He has to learn to play, to tell them off, to ignore stranger dogs. And stranger people. And other things. Especially if the dog is going to interact with other dogs regularly. Absence of social skills with strangers makes dog unpredictable and dangerous to himself and to others. If your dog has never been in the fight, how do you know he will not fight other dogs to the death during NAVHDA training days?
If the dog is unable to ignore stare from other dog and launches into fight, do you think its because he is a badass confident leader of all packs? Or just insecure poorly socialized former wannabe leader of puppies, with zero experience of how to handle this situation, who just cant stand his status being questioned?
That's why I would say socialization is also really important to confident stubborn independent puppies as well.
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