Stud dog owners

Genetics, breeding, birth defects, diseases, etc. (No litter listings)

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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby GPBLITZ » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:08 pm

Constructeur wrote:Just saw on Instagram a fella 'starting' a kennel with a NA x NA breeding. One of the dogs comes from a VC, but...


Give the guy a chance. My first VC was a dog from such breeding. I'd owned , trained and guided grouse, wood cock hunts, owning and training for maybe 35 plus years. The breeder I bought Blitz from at that time didn't have much experience. What I saw was dogs that were calm, cooperative, and you could see the dogs were smart and the blood darn good. The breeder had a good head on his shoulders. Today this breeder has become a very sucsesful pro trainer and breeder. A man I consider my equal . A man I have no problem hashing out a training problem with or discussing a breeding with. I have a year old male NA titled that I would consider using as stud once we get health clearances on.
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby GPBLITZ » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:17 pm

gwp4me2 wrote:Ruffed grouse in the west will just fly up in a tree when you walk by.


Put some hunting pressure on the RG and they won't be sitting in trees long looking at you as you walk by.
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby gwp4me2 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:18 pm

GPBLITZ wrote:
gwp4me2 wrote:Ruffed grouse in the west will just fly up in a tree when you walk by.

Put some hunting pressure on the RG and they won't be sitting in trees long looking at you as you walk by.

I've sat and thrown rocks at them trying to get them to fly. Just sit there while the dog is running around below barking. Blue grouse are even worse. I know many of the grouse we hunt are never hunted. They are actually tough to get a good point on because they just hop up in a tree when they see the dog. We are also rarely in the really thick stuff you guys fight. I've shot a lot of grouse in open, old growth aspen where you may be able to still shoot at 40+ yards.
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby GPBLITZ » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:24 pm

gwp4me2 wrote: Just sit there while the dog is running around below barking


Not being a butt head . What are you doing as a trainer handler allowing the dog to run around barking at the bird when the hound should be pointing down draft scent or sight pointing ?????
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby gwp4me2 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:20 pm

GPBLITZ wrote:
gwp4me2 wrote: Just sit there while the dog is running around below barking


Not being a butt head . What are you doing as a trainer handler allowing the dog to run around barking at the bird when the hound should be pointing down draft scent or sight pointing ?????

Young dogs. I also used to run springers years ago and didn't know any better. These days a bird in the tree for an older dog is good steadiness training. A high drive pup can get pretty excited about a ruff sitting 8 feet off the ground. Especially when it is a brood of 6 or 8 young ones. Having that bird just sit there while you work the dog can be useful. I'm not one to leave a dog home until they are broke like some advocate. I've seen a person shoot the branch a dusky(blue) was sitting on to make it fly only to have it land on a different branch. Great eating though!
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby Constructeur » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:08 pm

GPBLITZ wrote:
Constructeur wrote:Just saw on Instagram a fella 'starting' a kennel with a NA x NA breeding. One of the dogs comes from a VC, but...


Give the guy a chance. My first VC was a dog from such breeding. I'd owned , trained and guided grouse, wood cock hunts, owning and training for maybe 35 plus years. The breeder I bought Blitz from at that time didn't have much experience. What I saw was dogs that were calm, cooperative, and you could see the dogs were smart and the blood darn good. The breeder had a good head on his shoulders. Today this breeder has become a very sucsesful pro trainer and breeder. A man I consider my equal . A man I have no problem hashing out a training problem with or discussing a breeding with. I have a year old male NA titled that I would consider using as stud once we get health clearances on.


Oh, he can have his chance, just not with my $800+. He's a young guy, and you have to admit that the fella I'm speaking of could go either way at this point in the game, so I see no point in supporting 'maybe' when it's easy enough to get what you want from an established source.

...I may be a bit sour when I see NA breedings as I've seen quite a few people try to name drop NAVHDA when they aren't really involved as well as the NA test, or the AKC JH like it's really something to behold.

Orhunter,

Going to the Invitational would be cool, but I'm staring down the barrel of a college education for the kiddo, and to be honest, if I had that kind of money for a 'project' I'd be shooting geese in Europe or New Zealand, or some other once in a lifetime trip. I'm totally satiated with a UT1 dog.

but opinions can change so... :D
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby gwp4me2 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:24 am

gwp4me2 wrote: Just sit there while the dog is running around below barking

The birds just sit there. I don't just sit there. Remember that out here the ruffs can be in some steep country. That dog/bird might be a couple hundred vertical feet above you so it can take a fat old man like me a little while to get there. I had it happen this last fall. Dog pointed up the mountain above me.(I run a beeper) By the time I get to him I can see some birds in the trees and some on the ground. Dog is being great but I want to work on steadines.... Whoa, flush, shoot, send dog for retrieve...... repeated 3 times on that bunch. Our ruffs aren't like yours. I left another 3 or 4 in the trees.
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby orhunter » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:36 am

Constructeur: I went as a spectator/photographer, no dog tagging along. I understand the college pinch on the pocket book.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby SMAbby » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:29 pm

Constructeur wrote:Orhunter,

Just saw on Instagram a fella 'starting' a kennel with a NA x NA breeding. One of the dogs comes from a VC, but... 8)


I have seen this a lot with our breed and it makes me.crazy. people are even charging 1500.00 for pups out of NA parents. I dont even charge that with Max as the sire.

I ask for all the testing plus brucelosis in advanced. I have to admit I have bred Max with some bithes that I widlsh I hadnt.

I also look at the contracts and I want to see what the breeder is asking of the new owners. Things you learn along the way.

Luckly I dont have to worry anymore. Max got the big snip last week.
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby leadeyedbugger » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:24 am

I was approached once on a wirehair that I owned yrs back. I told the interested party that I did not feel like my dog was breeding material. They were a little upset and offered me a fair amount of money for the breeding but I refused. There was nothing in the potential breeding that I thought would be bettering the breed in any way and I really felt like he was not breedable.
I have had two people approach me about my current male GSP. One I would not be interested in as I didn't feel that the female brought anything to the table. The second is a nice young female from a person that I trust as far as being a good and responsible occasional breeder. I have seen the female multiple times and I trust his dog judgement and was a bit flattered at the proposal. I told him to check back in a year or two. My GSP is coming on 2, and although he shows all the potential in the world a injury cut short his first hunting season, training is coming along well but he hasn't shown me enough yet. He needs at least another year of proving to me before I would consider him stud dog material. Maybe 2 more years....

BTW, gwp4me2....that breeding of Max to Meg's Dibs...what a thought provoking combo that is.....I have dreams about what a combo like that could possibly produce. I will be tracking those pups carefully..
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby gwp4me2 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:55 pm

leadeyedbugger wrote:I was approached once on a wirehair that I owned yrs back. I told the interested party that I did not feel like my dog was breeding material. They were a little upset and offered me a fair amount of money for the breeding but I refused. There was nothing in the potential breeding that I thought would be bettering the breed in any way and I really felt like he was not breedable.
I have had two people approach me about my current male GSP. One I would not be interested in as I didn't feel that the female brought anything to the table. The second is a nice young female from a person that I trust as far as being a good and responsible occasional breeder. I have seen the female multiple times and I trust his dog judgement and was a bit flattered at the proposal. I told him to check back in a year or two. My GSP is coming on 2, and although he shows all the potential in the world a injury cut short his first hunting season, training is coming along well but he hasn't shown me enough yet. He needs at least another year of proving to me before I would consider him stud dog material. Maybe 2 more years....

BTW, gwp4me2....that breeding of Max to Meg's Dibs...what a thought provoking combo that is.....I have dreams about what a combo like that could possibly produce. I will be tracking those pups carefully..

I'm having very serious second thoughts about not taking a pup. I will keep close track as well.
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby Densa44 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:07 am

I guess I've been very lucky. The first time, I put an ad in the NAVHDA journal and got a number of very sincere replies. I picked the one that met the following criteria; brown coat, little white, same or better Navhda scores, no common relatives and although not stated owned and handled by a rookie.

We have had 3 litters with this breeding and 3 breeders awards, one of the pups has a NA 112 and a UT 1 204. The second sire I got to meet before we bred to him and he met all the for going criteria except he is owned by a pro. We'll see how his pups do this summer at the NAVHDA tests.

What I've come to believe, is that if the genetics are good, the dog has done well at the navhda tests, is not too old, not related to my bitch and if possible owned by a rookie, you may be dealing with a very good dog.

Great post.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby hicntry » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:43 pm

," not related to my bitch"

If your bitch is of good quality, and I have to assume it is, your reasoning here escapes me.
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby Densa44 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:51 pm

I want 1. increased life expectancy , 2. Reduced chance of inherited genetic illness, and 3. Hybrid vigor, where the offspring has a chance to be better than either parent. So far the plan is working out fine. Three breeders awards at NA, one at UT for the first 3 litters and the fourth litter of pups will start being tested this season.

In the many years I have been holding a leash the biggest threat to sporting dogs that I have seen is the effect that the show breeders have had on the breeds. I have met an other breeder who has told me with a straight face that they are breeding "for thick paws and white teeth" she was going to use a 10 year old sire achieve these goals.

I was also told that the NA test was way too hard and it should just be "show the dog a bird and if it shows any interest, then that constitutes natural ability"

I have purposely picked a breed that does not have any show capability because they are not registered by either CKC or AKC. What ever happens to the PPs is in the hands of the breeders. I have recently seen a breeding of a father to daughter, neither dog tested or x-rayed, so the system isn't perfect.

At my age I'm trying to make my point through good works, I've found that preaching doesn't work.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: Stud dog owners

Postby hicntry » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:57 pm

" . increased life expectancy , 2. Reduced chance of inherited genetic illness, and 3. Hybrid vigor, where the offspring has a chance to be better than either parent."

And you believe that?
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