Dog Food

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:44 pm

When people can't or won't or are unable to answer true concerns, they always try ridicule as their next approach.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Huntin4fun » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:34 pm

I had a dog that suffered from all sorts of issues, so I spent a lot of time researching dog food, speaking with nutritionists, vets, dog owners, and everyone in between. I even did the raw thing after buying every brand of dog food available to man, including prescription. Here is what I came up with:

Dogs can live, survive, function, and be happy on a wide variety of foods/ingredients. Like humans, their bodies use what they are given, albeit at different levels of efficiency.

A lot of what type of dog food someone chooses simply comes down to the same reason why I feed my daughter what I feed her. While the other kids her age are doing fine on pepsi, potato chips, and candy, I simply don't feel comfortable feeding my daughter that. Go to a 3rd grade cafeteria some day and you would be shocked when some of these kids pull out their lunch bags.

In short....as long as the dog is healthy....feed what you want to feed.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:01 am

Doc E wrote:When people can't or won't or are unable to answer true concerns, they always try ridicule as their next approach.

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Attitudes like yours, we call it food snobbery, cost dogs months of quality life. I see these foods do amazing things on a weekly basis, and don't need to nitpick which isomer of fatty acid is better, I leave that to the nutritionists.

This food, that you wouldn't feed to your worst enemies dog, kept Meg moving after the NSAIDs and Dasuquin started to lose efficacy (after 3 years of daily use). Her coat thickened up, she regained muscle mass, and generally looked years younger. She felt so good she was able to hunt TWO days and was less sore the week after, compared to just one hunt the year before. This dog has crippling arthritis and would have been euthanized without modern medicine to keep her comfortable. Her coat got so much better I decided to use it to help the pup look good for breed show. As expected, her coat got thicker within a month of switching. It got thicker during the summer months when most Drahthaar coats get thinner. I started out feeding just the pup, but then the company screwed up and shipped me 12 bags of food instead of 3. So now the whole house is eating it. And you know what, all three dogs look and feel f*** fantastic. Vegas is in the best shape of her life, finally peeling off the chub without starving her, and the pup is maintaining weight without me needing to put toppers on her food to finish her bowl.

When I get through this pile of bags, I will switch back to a performance feed for the rest of hunting season. I do worry they will lose stamina, but we rarely hunt more than a few hours anyway. It just doesn't take that long to limit out, or to wear me out first.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:17 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:1. Attitudes like yours, we call it food snobbery, cost dogs months of quality life.
2. I leave that to the nutritionists.


1. B.S. !
2. Thank you. I am a Diplomate in Clinical Nutrition.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby JASmith » Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:49 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:Attitudes like yours, we call it food snobbery, cost dogs months of quality life. I see these foods do amazing things on a weekly basis, and don't need to nitpick which isomer of fatty acid is better, I leave that to the nutritionists.

This food, that you wouldn't feed to your worst enemies dog, kept Meg moving after the NSAIDs and Dasuquin started to lose efficacy (after 3 years of daily use). Her coat thickened up, she regained muscle mass, and generally looked years younger. She felt so good she was able to hunt TWO days and was less sore the week after, compared to just one hunt the year before. This dog has crippling arthritis and would have been euthanized without modern medicine to keep her comfortable. Her coat got so much better I decided to use it to help the pup look good for breed show. As expected, her coat got thicker within a month of switching. It got thicker during the summer months when most Drahthaar coats get thinner. I started out feeding just the pup, but then the company screwed up and shipped me 12 bags of food instead of 3. So now the whole house is eating it. And you know what, all three dogs look and feel f*** fantastic. Vegas is in the best shape of her life, finally peeling off the chub without starving her, and the pup is maintaining weight without me needing to put toppers on her food to finish her bowl.


Are you attributing the turn around of your dog to the corn or rice or whatever carbohydrates are included in the food?

I doubt that to be the case... And I don't even think you believe that. Do you?
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:34 pm

JASmith wrote:
Are you attributing the turn around of your dog to the corn or rice or whatever carbohydrates are included in the food?

I doubt that to be the case... And I don't even think you believe that. Do you?


Absolutely not, I attribute it to massive amounts of Omega-3s, levels high enough I couldn't supplement safely without also adding vitamin E and probably other things Im unaware of.

The rice is not detrimental however. Carbohydrates are excellent sources of energy in appropriate proportions.

I've seen prescription diets with even less trendy ingredients lists lower kidney values for animals in renal failure, I've seen aging dogs recognize their family again, and I've seen a dog I thought wouldn't survive the summer hunt again in the fall. Every doctor in my practice feeds this food, or Science diets version of it. I just happen to have the youngest dogs.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Spy Car » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:20 pm

Carbohydrates are an inferior source of energy compared with fats in virtually all instances.

The most appropriate proportion of carbohydrates for hard working hunting dogs is zero.

That carbs cut stamina is well established in the veterinary literature.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:50 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
Absolutely not, I attribute it to massive amounts of Omega-3s, levels high enough I couldn't supplement safely without also adding vitamin E and probably other things Im unaware of.


All Omega-3 should be protected with enough Vit E to prevent peroxidation once inside the animal. Not just "massive amounts".
That's around 100 iu Vit E per 1200 mg of Fish Oil.

I'm saying this from my Clinical Nutritionist persona and not from my "dog food snob" persona.

.
Last edited by Doc E on Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:58 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
JASmith wrote:
Are you attributing the turn around of your dog to the corn or rice or whatever carbohydrates are included in the food?

I doubt that to be the case... And I don't even think you believe that. Do you?


Absolutely not, I attribute it to massive amounts of Omega-3s, levels high enough I couldn't supplement safely without also adding vitamin E and probably other things Im unaware of.


OH ! ! In a previous post you said, "This food is what bought our senior lab another hunting season" and now we find out that it wasn't 'just the food' :crazyeyes: and of course there were the medications etc.
Why can't you be honest and upfront right from the get-go ?

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Re: Dog Food

Postby CWT » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:03 am

I guess we are supposed to believe Chiropractors know more about animal science than Veterinarians?
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:12 am

Doc E wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote:
OH ! ! In a previous post you said, "This food is what bought our senior lab another hunting season" and now we find out that it wasn't 'just the food' :crazyeyes: and of course there were the medications etc.
Why can't you be honest and upfront right from the get-go ?

.


I was. It was the food. She'd been on Dasuquin and daily Previcoxx for 3 years. After a 2 hour hunt in 2014 she was lame to the point of only getting up for food/water for 3 days after and we decided she was officially retired. She had a rough winter and we started the food summer 2015. She improved significantly and was able to hunt two separate hunts, with soreness only the following day. One of those hunts was opening day and she helped Vegas tackle a coon. She still has good days and bad days, but I'm hoping we can get her out for one more rooster this fall. She's a one bird and back to the truck dog now, but letting her do the work she loves is important to us, even if it's just once. I'm waiting for the day she can't stand up, it could happen any time, as hunting season approaches I hope it's not until after we get her out one more time.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby hicntry » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:21 am

CWT wrote:I guess we are supposed to believe Chiropractors know more about animal science than Veterinarians?


Yes....Or Spy Car. Listen and learn.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:54 am

CWT wrote:I guess we are supposed to believe Chiropractors know more about animal science than Veterinarians?


You can believe who you want. It's your dog and your choice.
You may have missed it, but I am Board Certified as a specialist in Clinical Nutrition.
That's what Diplomate means.
And yes, I am also a Chiropractor --- so what's that have to do with my credentials as a nutritionist ?

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:00 am

Misskiwi67 wrote: I'm hoping we can get her out for one more rooster this fall. She's a one bird and back to the truck dog now, but letting her do the work she loves is important to us, even if it's just once. I'm waiting for the day she can't stand up, it could happen any time, as hunting season approaches I hope it's not until after we get her out one more time.


My best wishes for her to continue to hunt as well.
Have you ever tried using Boswellia Serrata instead of Rx anti-inflamatories ?

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:13 am

Doc E wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote: I'm hoping we can get her out for one more rooster this fall. She's a one bird and back to the truck dog now, but letting her do the work she loves is important to us, even if it's just once. I'm waiting for the day she can't stand up, it could happen any time, as hunting season approaches I hope it's not until after we get her out one more time.


My best wishes for her to continue to hunt as well.
Have you ever tried using Boswellia Serrata instead of Rx anti-inflamatories ?

.


Not at her level of arthritis. She can barely move without the NSAID. I refill 6 months at a time because if I space out bringing more meds home, she HURTS. I have had so much personal and professional success, and rare (1/yr) side effects they are my go-to.

I've had clients start with that and been happy, but wasn't able to observe them long term. No current clients to follow since I switched from referral practice to small town GP last year.
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