Dog Food

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Spy Car » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:47 pm

I'm sure that no one doubts that a dog getting a good profile of Omega 3s with the complementary amount of Vitamin E is a good thing.

And I suspect few question the arthritis pain relief that comes with the appropriate use of NSAIDS.

Certainly not arguments from me.

But countless scientific veterinary studies have established the superiority of high-protein/high-fat diets over high-carbohydrate diets for health dogs.

A feed with 24% protein and a shockingly-low 14% fat will have consequences. One can get good Omega 3s by feeding fresh/frozen oily fish or supplementing with fish oil.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby CWT » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:16 pm

Or one can feed a quality food from Purina or IAMS and have better results ( with very rare exceptions). Or one can eat organic, and all natural, or non GMO ( which most everything you eat is GMO ) and it never makes any difference on the health and welfare of the person ( with very rare exceptions). Or you guys can continue to pervert good science in an attempt to bring the ignorant or uneducated portion of society over to your way of thinking.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Spy Car » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:54 pm

CWT wrote:Or one can feed a quality food from Purina or IAMS and have better results ( with very rare exceptions). Or one can eat organic, and all natural, or non GMO ( which most everything you eat is GMO ) and it never makes any difference on the health and welfare of the person ( with very rare exceptions). Or you guys can continue to pervert good science in an attempt to bring the ignorant or uneducated portion of society over to your way of thinking.


The "good science" can be found in the studies, which contradicts your way of thinking. No one mentioned organic or non-GMO in this thread. Carbohydrates, on the other hand, cut stamina and aerobic capacity vs fat burning. This is shown in every study. it is has been shown with hunting dogs, sled dogs, and greyhounds.

Too little protein leads to muscle tears.

Insulting people because you don't have the facts is a bad way to behave.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:32 pm

Spy Car wrote:
A feed with 24% protein and a shockingly-low 14% fat will have consequences. One can get good Omega 3s by feeding fresh/frozen oily fish or supplementing with fish oil.

Bill


I'm confused where you think 12% fat is "shockingly" low. It's not much lower than seen in Pro Plan large breed puppy - which is 13% Fat.

It's 6% lower protein and 6% lower fat than PPP Performance 30/20. That's only 12% more carbohydrates. Not double, twelve...

Here's a compendium article that reviews the joint diets, and studies related to them. Maybe Doc E can use his nutrition education to tell me how much fish oil I would need to supplement to be equivalent to that contained in 7 cups of dry food.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.prod.ve ... rea_FN.pdf
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:58 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
Spy Car wrote: Maybe Doc E can use his nutrition education to tell me how much fish oil I would need to supplement to be equivalent to that contained in 7 cups of dry food.


Because what you posted doesn't tell us how much is in "your" food, I have no idea how to answer your question
But it depends on the quality of the fish oil.
The one I use is a liquid -- only takes a maximum of 1/2 tsp per day.
It's called "Complete Omega-3 Essentials and is made by Nutri West laboratories in WY.
I would supplement with this regardless of what kind of food I was feeding.
NO food on the market contains enough Omega-3 to be of much value.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:53 pm

Doc E wrote:NO food on the market contains enough Omega-3 to be of much value.

.


This peer-reviewed, double blinded, placebo controlled study with force plate analysis disagrees with you.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22805303/
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:07 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:
Doc E wrote:NO food on the market contains enough Omega-3 to be of much value.

.


This peer-reviewed, double blinded, placebo controlled study with force plate analysis disagrees with you.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22805303/


I should have said , "No food that is commonly fed (regular commercially available)."
The Omega rich food used was a "Veterinary Therapeutic food".
Last edited by Doc E on Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:51 am

Yes, the food I'm feeding is a therapeutic diet. It contains 800 times more fatty acids than a typical diet.

It also has Brewers rice. The rice does not detract from its efficacy.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:55 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:Yes, the food I'm feeding is a therapeutic diet. It contains 800 times more fatty acids than a typical diet.


It doesn't say anything like that on the "label" that you provided.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby JASmith » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:51 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:Yes, the food I'm feeding is a therapeutic diet. It contains 800 times more fatty acids than a typical diet.


How much is typical then?
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Re: Dog Food

Postby hicntry » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:00 am

Well, I feed Kirkland Super Premium Chicken, Rice and Veggies. Treats given are American cheese slices wrapped around 500 mg's of Ester C each morning. beef riblets, and saw cut soup bones to keep the teeth white. They get all the fat trimmed from my steaks also. Periodically I still feed them a chicken leg or thigh. They love hibiscus flowers also, but they don't do geraniums, kersanthamums, or marigolds.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:22 am

JASmith wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote:Yes, the food I'm feeding is a therapeutic diet. It contains 800 times more fatty acids than a typical diet.


How much is typical then?


A standard diet contains .01%, this diet is 0.81%.

That doesn't help me do the math on how that converts to what would be found in standard fish oil capsules. I'm not sure if it's a direct conversion of oil to active ingredient. That's Doc Es department.

But if there's 4.4g omega 6, and 2.5g Omega 3 per 1,000 kcal, that means there's 10.8g omega 6 and 6.15g omega 3 per day for my dog. That's 17 1,000mg fish oil capsules per day if they are equivalent. That much oil effects absorption of other vitamins, particularly vitamin E, so this is also compensated for within the diet, making it nutritionally adequate for adult maintenance.
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