Glucosamine Dosage...

Diseases, proactive care, geriatric issues, etc.

Moderator: Moderator Pack

Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby mustad » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:18 am

My 6 year old PP has been limping on his front left leg for a few weeks after runs. He doesn't show it in the field as he's too focused, but it becomes obvious afterwards. I've screened him for lyme and there is no dysplasia and no sensitivity to manipulation, but the vet brought up the potential for arthritis. I also think it's possible that he may have stretched some ligaments and potentially damaged cartilage. All this led me to put him on Glucosamine Chondotrin MSM, probably something I should have had him on for a while really.

He's 62 pounds. Based on my research, I'm putting him on 1,000 mg GS, 800 mg Ch, 460 mg MSM, twice a day for 5 weeks and then cutting it in half assuming conditions improve. Any thoughts? Too much at first?

Thanks for any input.
User avatar
mustad
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby Doc E » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:38 pm

Chondroitin in an ADULT dog has been shown to have virtually no benefit (o.03%).
The Glucosamine should be SULFATE and not HCl (hydrochloride).
The proper ratio of Glucosamine to MSM should be 2 : 1 .

.
Doc E
HR UH MHR WR SR Casey RIP my friend :(
HRCH HR UH Tucker 1270 HR Ch. points :D
HRCH HR UH Weezle 250 HR Ch. points :)
User avatar
Doc E
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2235
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:19 am
Location: N.E. WA state

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby mustad » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:35 am

Thanks Doc.
User avatar
mustad
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby Doc E » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:50 am

With "my" Glucosamine + MSM, for an average sized hunting dog (60 to 80 lbs), you give one capsule twice a day for two weeks (loading dose) then drop down to one per day.

My product also contains Bromelain (to clean up the scuffed off cartilage cells in the joints) also proanthocyanidins (antioxidants for joints) and some Vit. C.

.
Doc E
HR UH MHR WR SR Casey RIP my friend :(
HRCH HR UH Tucker 1270 HR Ch. points :D
HRCH HR UH Weezle 250 HR Ch. points :)
User avatar
Doc E
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2235
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:19 am
Location: N.E. WA state

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby mustad » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:22 pm

How much Glucosamine & MSM do you have per tablet?

The jar I bought (Solgar Extra Strength Glucosamine, Chondroitin MSM with Ester-C) has per tablet:
500 mg Glucosamine Sulfate (from Glucosamine Sulfate 2KCl)
300 mg Sodium Chondroitin Sulfate
230 mg MSM
20 mg Vitamin C

I'm planning on going 4 tablets per day right now for 4-5 weeks and cutting back in half for another month and then reassess. Any thoughts? Where can I find more information on your products?
User avatar
mustad
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby Doc E » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:24 pm

500 mg Glucosamine SULFATE and 250 mg MSM (NO useless Chondroitin). 50 mg Vit C, 10 mg proanthocyanidins, 10 mg Bromelain.
Chondroitin is great for the immature skeletal system, but once a dog is basically adult, there is no need for it (and no reason to pay for it).
Go to my website -- it's pretty much all laid out there www.DocsDogNutriceuticals.iwarp.com

.
Doc E
HR UH MHR WR SR Casey RIP my friend :(
HRCH HR UH Tucker 1270 HR Ch. points :D
HRCH HR UH Weezle 250 HR Ch. points :)
User avatar
Doc E
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2235
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:19 am
Location: N.E. WA state

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby mustad » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:37 pm

Thanks Doc. Makes sense.

By the way, on another note, my sources confirmed that both Orijen and Acana are nonGMO.
User avatar
mustad
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby ryanr » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:55 pm

Why should it be Sulfate only and not Hydrochloride? My vet recommended Nutramax Cosequin or Dasuquin to me because of the pharmaceutical grade manufacturing standards. Both products and are a hydrochloride form of glucosamine. It's also the supposed "#1 veterinary recommended brand of glucosamine." It says to keep him on 3 per day for 4 weeks and then cut to 1-2 per day for maintenance.

Background: My dog is 65lb, 2+yr old male Drahthaar. In late October we returned from a week's hard hunting in Maine (where he never once showed lameness & he hunted every day, all day) he was a bit lame in his right rear leg. After a physical examination by my vet, she said there was very slight movement in the knee and therefore felt he had slight tear of his "ACL." She (and I) also noticed a slight difference in overall muscle mass between the two rear legs which led her to believe he had this long before I took him to Maine. She said there were options without surgery. Initially she gave him two injections of Dasuquin and a week's worth of anti-inflammatory. Then she said to keep him on a daily glucosamine regiment for the rest of his life. She also encouraged me to continue giving him the wild Alaskan fish oil supplement I give him daily.

He's never come up lame a second time. He hunts hard, without any limp though he does sometimes trot with a slight hitch or skip to his gait in his rear legs. Most people don't even notice it's so slight. On a flat out run (and he's fast as all heck still) you can't tell.

Curious how many here have had to deal with just a slight tear like this in their dog and your experience?
ryanr
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2107
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:54 pm
Location: Lehighton, PA

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby Doc E » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:57 pm

ryanr wrote:1. Why should it be Sulfate only and not Hydrochloride?

2. My vet recommended Nutramax Cosequin or Dasuquin to me because of the pharmaceutical grade manufacturing standards. Both products and are a hydrochloride form of glucosamine.

3. It's also the supposed "#1 veterinary recommended brand of glucosamine." It says to keep him on 3 per day for 4 weeks and then cut to 1-2 per day for maintenance.

4.
After a physical examination by my vet, she said there was very slight movement in the knee and therefore felt he had slight tear of his "ACL.


1. The sulfate form is much more biologically active in the majority of dogs (and humans).
2. & 3. Ask your Vet how many hours of training your Vet has had in Clinical Nutrition.
4. Slight CCL tears usually get worse with time.

.
Doc E
HR UH MHR WR SR Casey RIP my friend :(
HRCH HR UH Tucker 1270 HR Ch. points :D
HRCH HR UH Weezle 250 HR Ch. points :)
User avatar
Doc E
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2235
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:19 am
Location: N.E. WA state

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby huntnvet » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:01 am

Hey Doc E, what exactly are you a doc of? I'm assuming some sort of nutrition?
huntnvet
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 7:38 pm

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:42 am

Doc E wrote:1. The sulfate form is much more biologically active in the majority of dogs (and humans).
2. & 3. Ask your Vet how many hours of training your Vet has had in Clinical Nutrition.

.


I was curious also, as our board certified orthopedic surgeon recommends Dasuquin which is the other form.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
User avatar
Misskiwi67
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1808
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:04 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby ryanr » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:30 am

Realizing that slight CCL tears often do usually get worse with time but is it worth getting surgery before a complete tear? Is it possible and is there a big difference in cost & recovery time as well as success versus surgery after a complete tear?

He hasn't really slowed down any, that's for sure, and manages it well. Though I do watch him and last week rested him early after we had hunted a particularly steep hilly area. One thing I will not be allowing him to do in the future is chase after fun bumpers or balls without holding until released to fetch. I think jumping up to catch them is where the injury might've occurred.
ryanr
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2107
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:54 pm
Location: Lehighton, PA

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:50 pm

ryanr wrote:Realizing that slight CCL tears often do usually get worse with time but is it worth getting surgery before a complete tear? Is it possible and is there a big difference in cost & recovery time as well as success versus surgery after a complete tear?

He hasn't really slowed down any, that's for sure, and manages it well. Though I do watch him and last week rested him early after we had hunted a particularly steep hilly area. One thing I will not be allowing him to do in the future is chase after fun bumpers or balls without holding until released to fetch. I think jumping up to catch them is where the injury might've occurred.


Studies have shown no difference in osteoarthritis formation years after surgery regardless of treatment. Controlling pain in the reason for treatment and if your dog is comfortable I would stay the course.

When my dog had a partial tear the time of year was perfect for her to have surgery and recovery and be back to crazy frisbee dog by summer so I did the surgery immediately.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
User avatar
Misskiwi67
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1808
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:04 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby Doc E » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:33 pm

huntnvet wrote:Hey Doc E, what exactly are you a doc of? I'm assuming some sort of nutrition?


I am (by trade) a Chiropractic Physician.
I am a Diplomate (board certified specialist) in Clinical Nutrition.

.
Doc E
HR UH MHR WR SR Casey RIP my friend :(
HRCH HR UH Tucker 1270 HR Ch. points :D
HRCH HR UH Weezle 250 HR Ch. points :)
User avatar
Doc E
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2235
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:19 am
Location: N.E. WA state

Re: Glucosamine Dosage...

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:24 pm

So you are a human nutritionist? Damn, I was going to have you explain some posts on VIN that stated Glucosamine hydrochloride was more potent and better absorbed in the acidic canine stomach pH and see if your info was newer.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
User avatar
Misskiwi67
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1808
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:04 pm
Location: Iowa

Next

Return to Healthcare

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron