Bloat

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Bloat

Postby 3drahthaars » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:56 am

How many have had experience with torsion/bloat in DDs?

I lost my first DD to bloat at 14-yrs.

A friend had two DDs bloat within 2-weeks of one another. One 11, the other 14.5-yrs, the latter survived.

My current pup's mother bloated at 6-yrs, 7-wks post partum.

Only two of these cases were related to one another. But, it seems to be a relatively high incidence.

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Re: Bloat

Postby Margaret » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:29 pm

Are they related? Could be a disposition toward it if so. (sorry just read only 2 are)

Maybe you should write down a list; Time of day fed, what the dogs do before feeding, what they do after feeding. drinking water habits, how they eat (slow or vacumn) and see if you can pinpoint something to change. Also I'd google the food brand for bloat, you just might find something come up on that.

Sounds very rough on the dogs and your pocket.
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Re: Bloat

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:06 pm

Any deep chested breed is predisposed. Most current cases are in Great Danes, Weimeraners, and labradors. I suspect breed prevalence has a high influence on these statistics.

It would not surprise me at all that this deep chested hunting breed is predisposed to bloat.
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Re: Bloat

Postby hicntry » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:13 pm

Wow, that is a lot 3 D's. I have never had to deal with bloat and the dogs are deep chested running dogs. My personal thoughts on it have always been one reason I free fed so they never gulp mass amounts of feed when I wasn't watching them or when they are fed portioned feedings. Food is always available so they tend to snack on a few pieces occasionally throughout the day.
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Re: Bloat

Postby lanco » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:12 pm

I think bloating at 14 always makes me suspicios of some respiratory issue that led to aerophagia (swallowing air). To have 2 dogs in one house bloat in one month is pretty crazy! I have never seen a DD/GWP bloat but I know GSP's come up from time to time. I think eating associated with GDV is over played and many if not most of the bloats i have seen (60-70 over the years) occurred late at night (duh I work night :lol: ) long after eating. I have seen several dogs GDV after exertion in the heat and the excessive water consumption. I also had a dog cut up all night in our kennel and then bloat at shift change (-"*#€¥@** dog made me stay 3 hrs late!) and I've had other bloats following howling screaming seperation anxiety behavior. On the other hand I've seen thousands of dogs scream, carry on, guzzle water and bolt food to no ill affect so who knows? It seems to be genetic with Great Danes strongly over represented. It is likely associated with impaired gastric motility in many if not most cases. Labs bloat a lot (maybe 1/4 of all the bloats I've seen) but since 1:3 dogs in the US is a lab the frequency amongst labs is actually pretty low. I have seen lots of Chows bloat which goes against the deep chested confirmation idea. If you know several of your dogs realatives have had GDV then a prophylactic gastropexy is worth considering. Miss K may have seen something I haven't but although various feeding suggestion have been made to reduce the incidence I'm not aware of any data to back them.
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Re: Bloat

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:45 pm

Ianco, you pretty much sum up my experience too. Old dogs, late nights.

I had a co-worker that had an old dog bloat after flipping the dog on the x-ray table, and another that saw a young dog bloat after a spay. The dog rolled over in the kennel run when the vet checked on her in her kennel before leaving for the night and the dog was dead from bloat in the morning.

My personal opinion is that tissues get flabby as dogs get older, and this allows the stomach to twist. I think its an old dog problem, and something about deep chests predisposes it to being a breed problem - but there's nothing else to back me up on that.

I have also seen bloat in an english bulldog, and in 2 guinea pigs.

I do not feed my dogs any differently to try to prevent bloat.
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Re: Bloat

Postby Steve Anker » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:57 pm

I lost my beloved CHILI BEAN after an experience with bloat, it really hit home. We have changed our feeding habits to late afternoon/early evening feeding times to allow the dogs to settle down after eating, to digest undisturbed, at ease. It has been said that a dog needs about 4-6 hours to digest a meal, fully.
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Re: Bloat

Postby orhunter » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:09 pm

Kind of wondering why so many dogs die of this? My guess is there must be too much time that passes between onset of symptoms and their discovery? Dogs being alone? Is there anything that can be done to increase survival?
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Re: Bloat

Postby lanco » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:47 pm

I have only seen a handfull that couldn't be saved with SX, lots of blood products, monitoring ect. Knock on wood all those that I have cut have survived, even a Great Dane where we excised half the stomach due to necrosis ( crazy beast was up and eating in 12 hours). I'm not vain enough to think that is me though just dumb luck and the odds will catch up to my cases at some point. Only about 40% of folks opt for sx though and the rest are euthanized. Kenneled dogs tend to be found in extremitis since 3:am unproductive retching is the way it normally starts. If your dogs are ever truly trying to vomit (heaving, retching) and bringing nothing up it is worth forcing the issue with your vet and getting a radiograph, in many cases we see torsion before the stomach is distended enough to get past the ribs and give the classic "bloat" appearance. Make sure your veterinarian does a gastropexy, I've had several dogs bloat repeatedly after surgery (months later) but the pexy (I like a robust inscisional with big suture to anchor that mother) prevented torsion so no major difficulties ensued, just pass a tube and send home. I think most of the young dogs I have seen bloat were labs, and shepherds that guzzled ridiculous amounts of water or did other dumb things. I think the old dogs are either being predisposed by laryngeal paralysis, or other respiratory issues or just spontaneous and secondary to impaired gastric motility. I have heard all the stories of dogs being flipped ect but every dog rolls on its back, rolls over, cuts up ect many times in their lives so I have trouble seeing causality there. Two dogs in a month should be illegal though, but life likes to pile it on sometimes.
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Re: Bloat

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:20 pm

lanco wrote: I have heard all the stories of dogs being flipped ect but every dog rolls on its back, rolls over, cuts up ect many times in their lives so I have trouble seeing causality there. Two dogs in a month should be illegal though, but life likes to pile it on sometimes.


I agree - mostly these were examples of "$#*! happens" because I don't think there is any single cause.

The take home message here should be keep your dogs in the home, get them to the vet at the first sign of unproductive vomiting. Success rate is very good when caught early, and decreases with time and severity. Its the cost and the age of the dogs that causes most people to euthanize instead of doing surgery. I would probably do the surgery if caught early and my pup was 10-11, probably not at 14. Age is not a disease, but everything has a shelf life.
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Re: Bloat

Postby lanco » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:31 pm

Yeah, Ava better be a REAL spry 14 if she wants me to fix her GDV :lol:
The first GDV I ever cut was a 13 yr old chow who did great and lived two more years so never say never, but case selection becomes an issue at advanced ages.
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Re: Bloat

Postby orhunter » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:48 pm

Had no idea Laryngeal Paralysis was related. My first Griff had it and live long after diagnosis.
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Re: Bloat

Postby lanco » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:37 pm

Clarification: I just meant that any disease that causes panting/difficulty breathing will increase aerophagia (swallowing air) and that could be a factor in bloat. There is no direct correlation between laryngeal paralysis and bloat. GDV is a very frustrating disease.
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Re: Bloat

Postby 3drahthaars » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:40 pm

Thanks for the replies.

The two 14-yo dogs were mother / daughter... This one female would still be hunting if she weren't deaf and blind... she's that healthy.

We really stretched to figure out what happened on my new pup's mom... since trauma is another published cause one vet thought that maybe whelping the litter may have been the issue... go figure. At any rate, I'm very careful about all of the things that can initiate bloat with this pup...


Take care,

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Re: Bloat

Postby lanco » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:09 pm

If you ever spay your current pup, have a pexy done at the same time. Or inquire with your veterinarian about a prophylactic pexy w/o a spay. We do them for great Danes occasionally.
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